Cleave

I'm a physical damage duelist, and my cleave dropped from like 13k, to 8k dps. there is no reason to nerf cleave at all since it was extremely EQ dependent to get it to high dps. Cleave SHOULD have high damage potential since as a melee character i have to take hits so i should be able to do high damage. This change was not necessary whatsoever.

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BlackSwordsman01 wrote:

I'm a physical damage duelist, and my cleave dropped from like 13k, to 8k dps. there is no reason to nerf cleave at all since it was extremely EQ dependent to get it to high dps. Cleave SHOULD have high damage potential since as a melee character i have to take hits so i should be able to do high damage. This change was not necessary whatsoever.

Exactly. Now, on higher level maps, i don't do enough dmg to effectively kill monsters. It takes too much time to kill them, thus depleting all my flasks.

So now that Cleave is worthless, what else is there for a dual wield char? Cyclone? :|

The major reason Cleave got nerfed was because it distinctly violated the way that dual wield works in this game. Typically skills are supposed to attack with one weapon at a time, but benefit from the block chance and attack speed bonuses. (Dual Strike is a special exception)

Prior to this, Cleave managed to be a PBAoE that used both weapons simultaneously. Now the multiplicative penalties even the score. The fact it didn't affect elemental damage at all was just insane.

Cleave got way overnerfed, there is no reason to pick it at all for its damage now(0,84 "damage-effectiveness" while dualwielding) , every other skill does the same job better now.Dualstrike is the only reason left to use Dualwield, everything else is better used with a shield+onehand, because the dualwield boni aren`t even close to offset the disadvantage of loosing a shield.

What they should have done is, they should have incresed it to 60% reduced damage while dualwielding, but increased the %/lvl by 0,5. This way it would have been nerfed quite a bit in a race situation, but only slightly in lategame. As it its now, the skill is total crap for dualwield or onehanded use, might be ok with twohanders though.

atm cleave has 70% effectiveness for 2handers and 42%(0.7*0.6) for dualwield

think this nerf was a bit too hard because now everyones just useing double strike+melee splash wich deals about the same aoe damage but more singletarget dmg(with conc effect on cleave)

on top of that you dont get the reduced area of effect penalty from the dualstrike+melee splash combo

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Sobeck wrote:

atm cleave has 70% effectiveness for 2handers and 42%(0.7*0.6) for dualwield

think this nerf was a bit too hard because now everyones just useing double strike+melee splash wich deals about the same aoe damage but more singletarget dmg(with conc effect on cleave)

on top of that you dont get the reduced area of effect penalty from the dualstrike+melee splash combo

Actually its 84%, because you hit with both weapons at once(this is relevant, because all skill except dualstrike alternate between weapons), but its still to weak now.

guys, its ggg. with every fking patch they have to buff skill a skyhigh and skill b into the bottom.

1.0.0 features:

league of scion

league of molten shell

league of spectral throw



they just dont know where its enough.

how retarded do u have to be to nerf cleave that hard. in hc its not usable, who cares about sc cares who stack the ele dmg on cleave skyhigh. now its just fucked, the only skill i dont get bored from after weeks of playing.

what remains? traps, totems? zzzzzz. Spectral throw, gs? i have enough of this semi melee stuff..

the only REAL melee skill thats viable now is dual strike+splash. PROBLEM: i personally just dislike clicking single enemies, its just the positioning with cleave that makes a lot fun.

Did you guys read what the tooltip says?

It says "When Dual Wielding, Deals 60% of Base Damage from each Weapon combined" NOT "40% less damage". It's not multiplicative with the "70% Base Damage" clause, it is instead of.

You're losing damage because you're going from 140% damage +% Physical, to 120% Damage +(more % physical) and that 14% relative loss of damage is being translated through to equate to a larger portion.

Cleave still has a larger damage multiplier with DW than S+B, whether it deals more dmaage than a 2H weapon is going to require some calculation.

tl;dr Your DPS loss isn't because you have a 40% less modifier, it's because you have a 14% less base damage multiplier.

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Autocthon wrote:

Did you guys read what the tooltip says?

It says "When Dual Wielding, Deals 60% of Base Damage from each Weapon combined" NOT "40% less damage". It's not multiplicative with the "70% Base Damage" clause, it is instead of.

You're losing damage because you're going from 140% damage +% Physical, to 120% Damage +(more % physical) and that 14% relative loss of damage is being translated through to equate to a larger portion.

Cleave still has a larger damage multiplier with DW than S+B, whether it deals more dmaage than a 2H weapon is going to require some calculation.

tl;dr Your DPS loss isn't because you have a 40% less modifier, it's because you have a 14% less base damage multiplier.

To be honest, i didnt notice that, either i overread it or they reworded it. If this is true it would equate to a damage reduction of ~14-15 percent (should stay this way (base*0,6*2)*(inc/red modifier)*(less/more mod) , each less/more mod is seperate). If you consider, that before it had a 40% reduced modifier, you now basically got a 40% higher increased modifier.

But I´m not sure if it adds up. Because the Talenttree got changed, i cant do a perfect comparision, but i lost way more than 15% dps, more around ~30% dps. I will look if i can find an old version of the talenttree and add up all the increased mods and compare it to my current talenttree, then i might know for sure.

i was around 25k dps pre-nerf, down to 13k post-nerf. yeah, cleave is dead.