Blood Rage

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

Ive said it before, gonna say it again


this

skill

HAS

to

be

free

for

ci




you NEED to reverse this silly shit. Ive just unspecced ghost reaver + vaal pact on yet another physical melee ci build because I literally cannot get enough leech to even NOTICE it doing anything. You told us that 4% leech was being nuked to 0.8% but it would still feel like 4% because of the stacking... bullshit, utter bullshit. I have the equiv of the old 4% life leech on my current ci char and it does NOTHING, I dont even see a single fucking pixel on my es move when I kill 20+ mobs with a physical attack using vaal pact + ghost reaver... what the fuck? Melee need leech to survive.

please unfuck bloodrage and ci melee, this needless change is just hurting for no reason, its total bullshit.

I don't know if it has to be free for CI, but I think 4% is too much, but only for the ability in its current state. This game is about making trade-offs at the highest level for more dps. CI is a trade-off, but it doesn't mean that this skill specifically has to be the reward, just that the reward compensates. I know it is possible to get much higher ES than life, and there are also ways to be freeze and stun immune.

People seem to be conveniently forget about melee dmg on full life, a support gem that CI gets to use, that life doesn't get.

I am personally looking at this from a different perspective. I am trying a mind-over-matter melee hierophant templar. When you look at all the mana nodes, and life nodes, and life leech nodes, and mana leech nodes that the build needs, hierophant becomes short on dps. Now there are a couple of ways around that, and one is blood rage.

The problem was that in the past, all of the ES that you NEEDED to have on your gear to play mind-over-matter is no longer not even helpful, it is DETRIMENTAL to your build.

I have gone through the trouble of removing Sanctuary of Thought from my build because it happens to hurt it rather than help it. The additional point that I am adding here to your point is that this ability currently forces ES to be bad for life users. Maybe from the design and balance perspective, it was good to not link mana to ES. It was a huge inconvenience to my build and people that used Carcass Jack, but maybe that was needed. That's not the issue.

The issue arises that you can't leech to life, to mana, and to ES, and have good dps. You just can't, and for good reason. So...having ES becomes bad for life and mind over matter users. Do you see how that works?

Now regarding CI again, there are plenty of workarounds to get 4% extra regen via consecrate, but CI does get less regen than life users do. There are also life regen nodes and plenty of jewels that make regen from life apply and bonuses to life apply to CI. Let's not forget about Zealot's Oath either. So, to say its too much for CI to bear is crazy. I just don't think it should be free to CI. I think that's dumb, and not within the spirit of the game. It certainly doesn't fit within the "vaal" mantra. But the penalty to this ability should be more like 3.25% physical damage to ES, and not 4%. In general, ES gets less regen than life does. That part does make sense. (Again, I've gotten rid of my ES at this point, so what do I care?)

I also think physical damage is sort of boring, because it is much harder to mitigate (from a dot perspective). There is less room for improvement to your character. I would make the damage 5% to life from chaos damage, while having it 3.25% to ES from physical. And I would also consider adding a 0.4% mana leech component to this ability for MoM users. Why wouldn't you have this? Does blood rage not work that way?

The other possibility is keep the penalty for this ability high, even increase it, and buff the attack speed and add a more physical damage component, so it is more like righteous fire in the way it operates. You could make the damage 8.5% to life from chaos damage, while having it 5.5% to ES from physical. And instead of 20% increased attack speed at lvl 20 quality 20, you could have 40% increased attack speed and 20% more physical damage, so it is more like righteous fire.

It might not be that bad of an idea to have two different stages of blood rage, either, like when Goku goes super saiyan in Dragon Ball. Maybe you have one button activate the first stage and another button activate the second stage.

The poster above me said it would be nice if this worked for spell damage. I would say that is what righteous fire is for, but if you want to have a reverse crown of eyes helm for that, I'm fine with that. I like the idea of blood rage for attacks and righteous fire for spells.

Now for party play, there is another problem, and that's the other elephant in the room. And that is that the discipline aura and this ability for attackers don't mix well, probably in a similar way that life and righteous fire interact for spell casters.

If you are playing Mind Over Matter, and you want to force it to be bad to have life, ES, and mana, and not be able to regen and leech to all three, and want to force these characters to have to get rid of their ES, there should be a reward for that.

You can always have nodes behind the Mind Over Mana keystone just like Blood Magic has them. You can make a keystone that is behind mind-over-matter that removes your ES, and gives you more melee damage. You could take the amount of ES that you have and divide it by your life, ES, and mana pool, call that ratio the multiplier, and cap it at 10-15% (and make it for melee damage). Why melee damage? Well ES protects you from stun, and you already can't regen or leech to it, so....why give the bonus to range? Do you want to do that? Do you want a general node beyond Blood Magic that also gets rid of your ES for a bonus similar to this one? How would you solve this?

There are a number of options that we have at our disposal, and I welcome more ideas, but the problem to consider is the synergy of this ability and discipline, or righteous fire and discipline for life and mind over matter users in a party with CI members that use discipline.

There has already been a similar problem with elemental auras and members that like to run elemental equilibrium that makes party play a pain. Let's try to wrap our head around this problem and solve it.

Edit: So I have a slightly different opinion now from the perspective of someone who is playing a wild strike inquisitor templar instead of an earthquake hierophant templar.

Because I can take pious path, it would be very easy for me to get more regen to ES. I would need totally different gear to do that, but I could go CI and use this ability. I still might have less regen than I would otherwise.

The real issue for me, for this character, why I am no longer using this gem, is it does not provide a reasonable benefit for my character to offset the loss of the regen.

So, to me, if you are a pure physical character, blood rage is worth it. You get more leech to compensate for the regen loss. This makes high degen like vortex very dangerous, but you have leech and a damage buff, so I think that you make that trade-off.

If you have an elemental attacking character, this ability is not worth it, and there isn't really another ability to compensate, or to offer anything comparable.

Righteous fire works on all spells. Blood rage works for physical attacks. What works for elemental attacks?

I still think all the changes I recommended are good changes, but the opinion that it fixes the issue is not correct. I suppose you could make the leech half for elemental damage (not sure about chaos hit damage), or you could make a different ability.

Am I here the only person that thinks, that blood rage need to be a (only) MELEE skill and NOT spell ?

1) every games that I played before where blood rage was used by warriors, not mages, not rogues or priests.

2) blood and rage means anger, fury, physical and brutal energy, why then magical classes are allowed to even use it, while their potential magical energy is mana ?

3) there is an armour named: "Gruthkul's pelt" and that item disables usage of any spell skills. That means you can't use blood rage with so_much_physical_based_class_armour. Where is the logic here ? Blood rage never was and never should be a SPELL ! This is a melee abillity that warriors like marauder o duelist should use. PoE has to change some items like Gruthkul mechanics. I can understand that there are strange items that have punishmend usage, but if you GGG guys design an item for WARRIORS then let them use BLOOD RAGE please !

What I would ask of is: make the blood rage only melee usable skill OR change Gruthkull item design. And remember - the true warrior need war cry and blood rage. Making item for warrior (and I belive that incr. physiccal dmg stat and 150 life is based for physical class) don't make him punish for his most important and typical abillities.

This way we can talk about make a witch that cannot use mana when she's wearing shavs. Please GGG guys, no more stuff like this. Stay strong and keep going this great game !

I have purely crit melee character and i use this armour carcass jack, It happens to have es on it.

The sheer armount of life regen required to offset the 4% damage on ES added with 4% damage to life is ridiculous you cant do that witout severely crippling your skill points which again does not even amount to any real benifit .

the degen damage should be just 1 and not double dip both life and es. it should be based on the what ever is the maximum value.

"

Vipermagi wrote:

People have run Blood Rage on old Vaal Pact characters - so no Regen at all. That's how significant it is, lol.

I am not sure what you are trying to get at?
Even vaal pact has changed this directly affects the penalty of blood rage should be levied.
It simply does not make sense to have it double dip armour and life degen.
simply going by what ever is maximum life/ or es will fit to serve its penalty.

"

Vipermagi wrote:

What I'm getting at is, people have run Blood Rage's "ridiculous" drain without any form of recovery over time. Considering that, it's clear the Degen doesn't require one to "severely cripple" their build. Plus, whether it takes any notable amount of investment or not severely relies on where you're at in the tree - for Duelists and Marauders it's nearly free already, even when it factors in the 200 ES on Carcass Jack..

people who need to pick up blood rage because their builds lack the speed to do damage, hence they rely on gear like abyssus. These are physical builds.

abyssus upscales the degen of bloodrage by 1.4 Since its physical damage. You end up having to invest a lot in regen making the point of taking blood rage meaningless where with 1/3rd of the nodes you can get more attack speed and damage.

The builds that need blood rage for attack speed boost are the ones already using things like abyssus because they need to boost harder hitting aspect of their build and their build does not have enough speed.

If the blood rage degen just worked independent of gear like abyssus there would be no problem what so ever.

But when you apply an external physical damage it highly punishing.
Its a skill gem with a penalty to make some investment in regen nodes either life and/or es.

The extremely unfair up scaling of the degen due to equipped gear is what is UNFAIR and Meaningless and totaly defeats the purpose of using blood rage in the first place.

The level of monsters , mobs , bosses have all increased but the degen penality and the way it interacts with external gear is outdated.

Please, remove the word "Physical"... Let it leech any attack damage.

Is it intended for trigger level 1 Blood Rage on kill to overwrite a 20/20 casted Blood Rage?

I got the veiled mod on a weapon and instead of 20% increased attack speed, when I kill something, I end up with 5%.

This feels really bad.

It would be nice if you were prevented from overwriting a higher level buff with a lower level one.



Thanks for everything!

After I changed from a main skill that was closing the client, I'm having a BLAST with Legion!

Blood Rage must be improved more

here:

-decrease chance to gain frenzy charge from 25% to 20%
-change from "increase speed attack" to "more speed attack"
-more speed attack 10% from lvl1 up to more speed attack 25% from lvl 20
-life leech 1% from lvl1 up to 4% from lvl20
-taken 2% of your Maximum Life/Energy per second from lvl1 up to 5% from lvl20
-last for 6 seconds for all lvl