Frost Blades

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Vipermagi wrote:

..How did you test whether Projectile Damage applies or not?
Like every other Melee + Projectile Attack, the tooltip lists Melee Damage only.

According to responses I received in my thread here: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1528632 apparently, Projectile Damage nodes and Iron Grip does affect the Projectile portion of Frost Blades, YET the damage increase for Frost Blade's projectiles are not recorded anywhere within the tooltip or the Character Window.

The same scenario above applies to Skill Gems like Lightning Strike and Molten Strike that also have a Physical portion and Projectile portion where the latter is not calculated anywhere, that which makes things confusing when players go to allocate Projectile Damage nodes or Iron Grip.

Therefore, the only way players can see an increase in their Projectile DPS when using Frost Blades, Lightning Strike or Molten Strike is if they test their damage prior to allocating any Projectile Damage nodes or the Iron Grip Keystone, and that is not how it should be.

With that being said, I was able to at the time, at the very least, see a visible change in my Frost Blade projectiles after I allocated a Projectile Speed node, which makes projectiles travel further.

However, because I did not see an increase to my Projectile DPS in my tooltip and Character Window, I did not bother running the same test(s) regarding my DPS because I was already convinced (during the time I brought up this issue) the DPS increase from Projectile nodes and the Iron Grip Keystone did not affect Frost Blade's projectiles in any way.

TL;DR The Projectile portion of Frost Blades, Lightning Strike and Molten Strike should be recorded (somewhere) in their tooltips and the Character Window to prevent any confusion to other players in the future (it confused the heck out of me...)

This is a problem I hope gets looked into and fixed.

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Vipermagi wrote:

I figured as much. :)

Minor note:
"The same scenario above applies to Skill Gems like Lightning Strike and Molten Strike that also have a Physical portion and Projectile portion where the latter is not calculated anywhere"
A Melee* portion. Both the melee strike and the projectiles simply deal Attack Damage; by default it all deals Physical Damage (plus Elemental Damage from Conversion).

It sounds to me you are arguing that the Projectile portion from the Skill Gems Frost Blades, Lightning Strike and Molten Strike are treated as their Melee portion far as damage type goes, instead of the Projectile portion and Melee portion treated separate from one another when allocating certain Skill Tree nodes and equipping certain gear mods that increase those damage types separately.

However, as I said, the Projectile portion of Frost Blades, Lightning Strike and Molten Strike is receiving not-seen, behind-the-scenes benefits from Projectile nodes and Projectile-related gear mods that are not calculated in the tooltip or Character Window. You have to test this manually, which I did when this information was brought to me by other players in my thread I linked you.

TL;DR The Projectile portion on Skill Gems like Frost Blades technically is an extension of the initial Melee hit, yet that does not mean the Projectiles produced after the initial Melee hit should also be treated like Melee Damage (IF that is the case in any way) since once the initial Melee hit breaks off into Projectiles like with Frost Blades, that is what they are: Projectiles, not Melee at that point.

Therefore, if the argument is someway proved wrong that the Projectile portion from Skill Gems like Frost Blades is not affected by Projectiles nodes and Projectile-related gear mods, it should be, because the Projectile and Melee portions of the Skill Gem are two different types of Damage.

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Vipermagi wrote:

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

It sounds to me you are arguing that the Projectile portion from the Skill Gems Frost Blades, Lightning Strike and Molten Strike are treated as their Melee portion far as damage type goes, instead of the Projectile portion and Melee portion treated separate from one another when allocating certain Skill Tree nodes and equipping certain gear mods that increase those damage types separately.

What the fuck.

No, of course not.

I figured you would realise I was making a note on your use of "Physical portion" (which makes no sense, as I explained), what with me then talking about Physical/Elemental Damage rather than the Melee/Projectile distinction. I even distinguish between Melee/Projectile in that very post.

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"The Projectile portion on Skill Gems like Frost Blades technically is an extension of the initial Melee hit"
No, it's not. They're entirely unrelated. The Projectiles are calculated separately from the Melee portion of these Attacks.

First of all, calm down, or don't have a discussion at all. Thank you.

That being said, okay then, so my point was made that both portions of Frost Blades are treated as separate damage types, yet the Projectile portion is recorded nowhere, and that is what should be addressed so it is. It makes no sense to categorize a Skill Gem as also being a Projectile in its secondary portion and not record Projectile Damage within the tooltip or the Character Window.

Furthermore, I think you did rather poorly wording your other reply, because it still does not make much sense. Your other reply still seems to suggest something other than what you were originally wanting to get across. However, you did much better in your most recent reply.

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Vipermagi wrote:

No, it's not. They're entirely unrelated. The Projectiles are calculated separately from the Melee portion of these Attacks.

That depends on how you look at it. There is such a thing in games where a Melee hit coming from one source (a sword, an axe, whatever it is) breaks off into Projectiles / smaller version of a single weapon. That is all I was saying, that IF Frost Blades did work in that sense, my point still stands both portions of Frost Blade's attack are separate damage types, regardless.

P.S. So what if I got 'Physical Damage' mixed up with 'Melee'. You knew where I was going regarding the point I was trying to make.

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Vipermagi wrote:

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

P.S. So what if I got 'Physical Damage' mixed up with 'Melee'. You knew where I was going regarding the point I was trying to make.

Hey guess why I labeled it a "minor note". It was just a minor correction on choice of words.

I caught on to that minor correction and the reason why it was made. Thank you for the correction. I apologize if I came off like a jerk, yet I was slightly offended by what you said because there was a reason behind the way I replied to your other reply.

Does the "increased Melee Critical Strike Multiplier" from the Abyssus unique Ezomyte Burgonet apply to the projectiles of Frost Blades?

HeavyMetalGear's point about the lack of tooltip info on projectile damage for this and other mechanically similar skills remains a good one.

I've heard it said in other threads that GGG *can't* provide tooltip info, or else they would. That makes zero sense to me. The damage amount must be calculated, so the numbers must exist, obviously. GGG needs to add it to the tooltip. Something like this:

Deals a - b melee physical damage.
Deals c - d melee fire damage.
Deals e - f melee cold damage.
Deals g - h projectile physical damage.
Deals i - j projectile fire damage.
Deals k - l projectile cold damage.

For the primary tooltip amount, both could be summed and displayed with a slash:

y-damage-per-sec / z-damage-per-sec

where Y is melee and Z is projectile.

Yeah, it might be a little confusing to new players, but it would be considerably less confusing than the current situation!