Block incin and stuff *Discontinued due to Incinerate nerfs*

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Yemallis wrote:

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yotmato wrote:

I'm having a really hard time figuring out a tree :/, main problem is that the south side of the tree sucks real hard for this, because projectile damage doesn't scale blade vortex like it did incinerate.

You could also probably do it with EK which would benefit from all the projectile nodes.

Dmg-wise maybe... but remember that the idea for this build is to get as much from cybil's paw as you can - max your block (which would still be great for def alone) and get as much spell hits from enemies as you can. EK Don't pass enemies, and have low cast speed (at least if you compare it to incinerate). Blade vortex also is a bit slow to the original spell, but its blade pass enemies and you can keep many of them around you. Not sure if all 50, which is max limit, but in theory it should benefit in similar ways as incinerate.

Sorry for posting again after my own post but nobody see it if you just edit your previous post.

After some tinkering I get this:

http://exiletools.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAwAAvryzP09WHt_YTZSg2mIYVmh0-eiCxx2-M4cD7ij6V8kNfLiTHNyPGuvumuBFnVNShTLGrjwtPQ8GOfuq8wZRYO8OFCBfPxo-fuJ5OenVwQR5aKluwBpvO3fjAdyE2Ud-L8zBgtrBLlN07QUt029670CgwL-plQz3rK_qurQMytO-iqEvkyfviPk3189JsX_G8NVJUY_60NBfakGHtz6DzK-nxPaDX_4K2L3BxYhCgh7bC-wYeA218jWSRwbb57TFwuw6rW-E_xyE72EhZKO9NmVNYqxsjGwI8Yo=

....as I am very sleepy right now it probably will need some improvements but it should be good for a start. Still, you get 7 jewel slots which can be dedicated to 1% block and dmg increases and around 30% block increase. But that level 80-ish passive tree so it would be kind of late bloomer for build, hmm..

Ok, now it looks more like I have ODC but anyway....

After coming from work, I did some tinkering with a fresh mind and come with this tree:

So the tree gives us:
97% dmg increase (spell + physical)
76% increased Energy Shield
127% increased Life
29% additional block
6 jewel sockets

For around level 84-85 tree. Before that we should be able to skip some jewel sockets and dmg increases. After that level, get even more jewel sockets (1 with 2 passives, 3 with 3 of them each) and frenzy charges (2, each for 2 passives) to get something like that:


Since we are quite low on life here, I assume that all jewel should have 1% block and life - the third sufix might give you more dmg but so far let's assume more budget version. With cybil's paw and Rathpith Globe around level 84 we should get:

167-179% increased Life
~116% increased Energy Shield
63% block (no corrupted gear included)
~250% dmg increase

Now, the final dmg is a bit tricky here as we don't know how fast the blades are going around, what is the radius etc.

But let's assume some semi-decent situation:

- Single blade dmg is 150

- we use setup suggested in previous post (the one with controlled destruction suggested by Yotmato) with 5 links: BV - Echo - Increased duration - Controlled destruction - Life leech

- around 1/3 of ours blade hit each enemy per second

- We use herald of ash and hatred

With no charges included we get around 17k dmg for single mob in radius, which gives us around 100 life regen per enemy (14 hits). The more, the merrier - just like with incinerate xD

What do you people think ?

I am going to try ball lightning out with it and see. Ball lightning hits a lot so that should be useful for cybil's. I just think that the damage won't be there. We will see after it is buffed.

The one good thing about EK is that you could use taste of hate and you would get the damage reduction and the damage increase from it. I don't think it will cast often enough to make cybil's work properly though.

One of the best build I ever seen, with a deeply understanding of game mechanincs and probably one of the cheapest tanky fun build.. RIP

It's the third time I have to smash my incinerate build.. I don't know if this is balancing, GGG has a great concept design of market and development, but they start to play with customer too much: if you want to spin the rules every 6 month it's ok, but you'd better introduce a way to exchange also effects, levels on gems and in a few words, your costumer's time

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mrelite85 wrote:

One of the best build I ever seen, with a deeply understanding of game mechanincs and probably one of the cheapest tanky fun build.. RIP

It's the third time I have to smash my incinerate build.. I don't know if this is balancing, GGG has a great concept design of market and development, but they start to play with customer too much: if you want to spin the rules every 6 month it's ok, but you'd better introduce a way to exchange also effects, levels on gems and in a few words, your costumer's time

That's exactly what they seem to be doing. Especially since when subclasses will be introduced I am sure this build will come back as a Necromancer-bone offering blocker. I can easily get around 400% increased dmg and 35% cast speed if I don't need to focus on block. Heck, there is possibility of creating fulll block RF incinerator. But still, no matter how we increase dmg, life per hit mechanic will suffer much without spell echo.

Some guy created another thread for changing this build to work with blade vortex:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1491163

....but it is still so similar to this one that yotmato could sue him for plagiat xD
But it seems blade vortex is viable alternative here.

"""WHY EB/MOM/MAX BLOCK DREAM IS OVER"""

What the original build excelled at was having everything work in sync perfectly. Decent to good (and consistent)DPS and extremely well defenses: high Block + eb + mom + over 160% life 140%es(with int bonus) + 7/8 jewel sockets(more life dmg and block) + fortify + endurance charges + grace/anger + frenzy charges(with blooddance) + coil + arctic armour + a purity(with enlighten and a reserved mana reduction node)

How did we achieve this:

1)We conveniently pathed through some proj damage nodes some efficient life and even some fire nodes(over at shadow) whilst getting block/life/life regen and jewel sockets all around
2)Incinerates more multiplier meant any type of added damage(via anger,hot or any proj or spell dmg increase) were to increase our dmg 4 times more.
3)Due to incinerates fast casting nature we easily sustained our es pool(both the mana cost and the damage taken)
4)Cybil's paw and high life regen meant extremely good hp sustain again due to incinerates fast hitting nature and eficient life regen nodes over the tree. Some variants ran blood dance which meant 3or4% life regen out of no where on top of the added cast speed.
5)On top of everything being able to reserve all the mana for goodnesses such as grace/aa/anger/purity

So what are some other options?

Incinerate was the only spell that has no base crit chance it scales its damage via its own more multiplier.
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Critical_Strike

The projectile side of EK is fairly similar to Incinerate which fits in well to the tree somewhat.
BUT it's just not good without crit. which in turn means not enough es sustain

The new blade vortex skill,(OP mentions this some post ago) screams critical and is not a projectile and is not a melee attack. And its nature that is you have to charge up and go in to combat afterwards doesn't give you the satisfactory es regen amount.

Bladefall(or any other aoe skill really). has similar problems. It scales really well with crit and the casting is a bit delayed to sustain es.

Contagion or any other chaos based skill won't work due to no leech

Any other melee skill(which we already get alotof melee phys/as multipliers) you might as well do armor block or something since cybils and eb mom synergy is not there.

THE ONLY SPELL that reminds me of incinerate is Lightning tendrils which has always been subpar and its what Im currently testing out. It's similar in that it sortof has a channeled casting mechanic. Which might help with sustaining the es pool. BUT it's not a projectile it's an aoe which we still may modify the tree to have some inc aoe but Im not sure, without the crit, if the damage will be there.

"""CONTROLLED DESTRUCTION MAY BE THE SOLUTION I SHALL KEEP TESTING"""

TLDR: There isn't another incinerate. I'd suggest you either do crit caster eb/mom or hybrid or ci.
Or a melee max block character. As no matter how we cut it, it is too ineficient to do both.
RIP my blue friend:(

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Tunyabgu wrote:

"""WHY EB/MOM/MAX BLOCK DREAM IS OVER"""



"""CONTROLLED DESTRUCTION MAY BE THE SOLUTION I SHALL KEEP TESTING"""

TLDR: There isn't another incinerate. I'd suggest you either do crit caster eb/mom or hybrid or ci.
Or a melee max block character. As no matter how we cut it, it is too ineficient to do both.
RIP my blue friend:(

Thanks for the explanation. I'm wondering this is too much enjoyable build, something that could stop people from searching.. but imho to reach an uber atziri viable build you have to work hard, and it's exepensive like many other builds.

I've tried tornado shot, poison arrow, cyclone, reave...etc and it's clear: is not a question of power.

I can overkill 10 times every monster in this game, but no with incinerate. You can focus on defensive mechanincs, but not with THIS simply perfect mechanic you also describe, finding alternatives. Maybe this is a politics to create party and guilds.. I guess GGG have destroyed incinerate because it isn't charming to see for "potential market".. too functional, too easy, too fun, too beautiful in THIS particular build.

"Maybe I destroyed the game, or maybe GGG are making excuses"

- Micheal "Incinerate" GGGordan

Goddamn.

At least cybil's is not dead

I made a pretty solid build with blade vortex and cybils but yeah, I think this kind of tank builds that can also do decent damage at range are most likely officially dead, at least until Ascendancy

Sad to see the death of a tanky Incinerate build.

Having had time to try out the Incinerate changes in my own build, I'm coming to the opinion that 2.1 Incinerate is a fine spell with several uses despite the triple whammy of reducing Incinerate base damage, reducing the stage ramping, and outlawing Spell Echo with the new Controlled Destruction alternative thrown in as a lesser alternative (a reduction to 54% of 2.0 damage to start with...), but there's no doubt that it substantially reduced the number of currently viable builds, and especially those relying on the high number of casts per second for Cybil's Paw use/abuse were hit hard.

It'll be interesting to see which new builds people come up with; Unfortunately, it seems likely that we'll be seeing primarily new high-damage Incinerate builds rather than tanky builds because the possibilities for going crazy with chaos-Incinerate are greater than ever.

So thanks for the effort you put in this build: It has been a pleasure to watch this build in the forum and I wish you luck with your new build. :)