Improve. The. Ranger. Area.

I just lost my HC ranger to a cluster of arc casters in the barracks. Why? Because I could only max out two resistances at once, lightning was only (only? lol) at 50%. I was playing a melee ranger, of course. And yes, I had plenty of life. 2.6k at 52; I literally could not get more life if I fucking tried.

Why do melee rangers not get access to any elemental resistances? Yeah, I know, they have 'avoid status effects' but that's not nearly as good 90% of the time. Reducing the elemental damage you take by 15% > avoid freeze 15% of the time. If you want rangers to be different, fine, but they need a better way to avoid elemental damage. Fuck me for trying to be a melee ranger I guess? I couldn't afford to get diamond skin and I picked up what elemental resistances I could (I spend 3 points on elemental resistance, but could only get 1 lightning node).



Okay. Do you see the stuff I've circled? The stuff I circled sucks. At least in its arrangement. It doesn't offer much choice and really, I've done plenty of threads on why the ranger starting area is horrible for melee, compared to other clusters on the tree.

So I've proposed my own idea here. I keep doing this. I don't know why. But I can't help myself. This seems like a perfectly sensible solution to me. Whether it gets even considered or not.



A) +10% accuracy, +6% projectile damage
B) +10% accuracy, +6% one-handed physical damage

goal of these changes: 12% for a point is 20% above average... but so what? It's kind of insulting really, as Rangers get plenty of dex anyway. I think it's weakening the class, at least for melee. Let's partition the 12% accuracy into 2 distinct nodes.

C) +8% one handed physical damage
D) +8% one handed physical damage

goal of these changes: ranger cluster is rather weak when you average points spend vs stats gained, for melee damage; either give the ranger something unique, or raise the point value here


E) +8% dual wield accuracy, +6% dual wield physical damage
F) Notable Node: Mistress of the Hunt - Your critical strikes while dual wielding inflict bleed.
G) +8% dual wield accuracy, +6% dual wield physical damage

goal of these changes: let's make dual wield ranger actually have an identity? let's give dual wield rangers a reason to dual wield? else, why even have these passives crammed into the ranger starting area? do you see pointless nodes in the templar starting area? I don't.

H) stays the same
I) +15% critical strike chance, +6% increased physical damage with 1h weapons
J) +2% attack speed, +6% increased phywical damage with 1h weapons
K) Notable: Passage of the Panther - +30 dexterity, every 4 dexterity increases your chance to get a critical strike with 1h melee weapons by 1%

goal for these changes: let's reward rangers for stacking dexterity, if they get 300 dex, they get 75% increased critical strike chance - that's not too shabby, but is also scale-based, if they only get 200 dex, it's only 50%, etc. -- it gives a reasoning behind 1h rangers, you can dual wield and combine this cluster with mistress of the hunt, or you can just get this node and have some great burst damage with a 1h+shield

L) +6% to all elemental resistances
M) Notable: Naturalist: +6% to all elemental resistances, +6% chance to dodge spell damage

goal for these changes: The ranger gets no early access to elemental resistances. Stun recovery is absolutely worthless. For 2 points, you get +12% to all and a "free" 6% phase acrobatics

What does everyone think?

I think it should be improved, but I Think generally the critical chance nodes are very under-value.

I think in general the layout there in the Ranger tree is really kinda horrible. But also I think having the generic Crit chance and shield notables are pretty week compared to a bunch of the other starting notables.

I don't think a chance to inflict bleed or further increases to crit chance will help much, because games like this generally de-value dot skills, and crit is just under-budget in terms of damage contribution imo.

I think the ideas are pretty creative, though.

What would you suggest then, in place of crit/bleed? I was trying to think of ranger-y things that worked well with one-handed weapons...? I mean traps/pets are a "no-brainer" but there aren't any skills in the game that really yet lend to that kind of playstyle so they wouldn't be fitting (yet).

Giving the ranger accuracy/attack speed/physical damage with 1h weapons really doesn't distinguish her from the shadow or the duelist, far from it, it just makes her less effective than them and have no identity.

Here's what I'd do:

Weapon Artistry: replaced with redesigned Heart of the Panther, gives +20 Dex, +20 Str, 2% attack speed with melee weapons. Evasion cluster now links to this instead of to random node in the next cluster.

Old Heart of the Panther cluster: Redesigned so top half is one-handed weapons, bottom half is two-handed weapons. Exactly the same nodes as the duelist cluster of the same type. New Heart of the Panther node can lead into either path.

Heartseeker cluster: This switches position so that you get it after completing two-handed weapons, and the crit chance nodes become 20% each.

Weapon Artistry cluster: This is where Heartseeker cluster used to be. Offers new Weapon Artistry with 6% block to either dual-wield or shield and 10% melee physical damage, along with two 2% block nodes that can be used for swords or dual-wield (just like the ones in the center of the tree). This cluster is accessed by completing 1-handed weapons.

One-handed weapons would dump you out in the place to pick up the frenzy charge then the Fitness and Swagger clusters; two-handed would put you in spitting distance of the Wrecking Ball cluster, a bunch of life and Finesse.

This would allow for 2h sword rangers (might be cool), focus more on attack speed for elemental rangers, and give some serious dual-wield/shield blocking.

Not a bad set of suggestions, but I guess I'm struggling to justify those changes. You'd effectively be making the Ranger into a slightly different Duelist in terms of build purposes, since they already occupy similar areas of the passive tree.

If we examine all the melee areas of the classes in POE, they have pretty distinguishable traits.

Shadow gets tons of attack speed, lightning damage, trap support, critical strike, and ES/EVA+ele resist.

Duelist gets tons of attack speed, dual wield block, life regeneration, cold damage, and a wide array of weapon specialization (reduced block, huge increases to accuracy, tons of critical strike chance while DW).

Marauder gets lots of stun duration / threshold, fire elemental damage, lots of critical multiplier.

Templar gets lots of weapon elemental damage, +AOE.

Witch gets lots of mana and +AOE size.

The five other classes are pretty distinguished in their core starting areas for melee, even if they aren't necessarily designed for it.

The Ranger though, gets specific melee nodes for a start... that don't seem to be all that impactful. The most notable thing is the ranger gets some good nearby block clusters, and lots of critical damage (though it's relatively far away from the start).

Anu, I think your first mistake was playing melee, and the second was playing ranger.

Agreed about the stun avoidance nodes being worthless, and crystal skin will never equal a fat +15% to all resistances node. These two things needs to change.

Moreover, I feel like dexterity in general is a terrible attribute, further gimping the ranger. Despite the accuracy bonus, you will still crave for a couple good acc mods on your gear, so there's no gain there. And the %evasion bonus... sigh. At least strength and int offer something worthwhile. Also, I hate going full dex because the magic find support gems are int and str.

/off topic

What was your plan for melee damage mitigation at level 50+ as a ranger? From my experience, there is only one way to do so right now and it's endurance charges. Which also helps fixing resists problems. I must say I hate that mechanic though. On my lvl 54 marauder, if I fail to renew my endurance charges, I get instagib. And even then, I often need to granite... The damage is just too out of control to play melee.

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FamousTrip wrote:

I think in general the layout there in the Ranger tree is really kinda horrible.

If you think that's horrible, try Duelist :) The junction between marauder and duelist is a heck of a mess.

Definitely agree that the starting ranger area blows for melee, both in content and in getting out of there.

(And it actually isn't even particularly good for bows either, unless you're going phys bows)

Heh, it's a little like you've come full circle from a few months ago. (For new people viewing that for the first time, I meant "weakest" primarily in the sense of design, not power.) (Also: Again: Thanks Q for buffing the Ranger's basic projectiles% up to average.)

If you think getting resist is annoying on the ranger, try doing it with the Witch. Holy hell.

I do think the idea of having a Spell Dodge node for her is ok. Like I've said before, she has nothing besides bows and evasion. Not traps, nor kitties.

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My Thoughts on the Knots of the Ranger Tree

We can talk about the melee route in tiny details all we want: the numbers and stats are weak. It goes too long.

There is one fundamental flaw with it: it's a corkblock. Take every other starting path in the game (except for the Witch's, which are also terrible): they all have escape hatches. Within six points. Even the Marauder's loloverpowered Defense Route, should you for some crazy reason only use part of it.

The path of the Shadow is completely closed to the Melee Ranger. You want that +15 lightning resist north of the start? Better be willing to burn a hell of a lot of useless points getting it.

Unless we use some of those warp points I mentioned to turn this region into a mobius strip, the one change definitely required: The terminus points need to be Finesse and Perfect Aim. That it terminates into basic 10% evasion is frankly ridiculous; way to move forward to move backwards.

If it were me:

* The entire Heart of the Panther cluster? Gone. It's in the way. Nobody loves you, so just leave. (btw: Personally I'd love HotP to give increased movement speed instead of attack speed. If the melee ranger can't have speedy hands and blocky fists, she might as well get the bonus of speedy feet. Like a Panther. Rawrrrr.) (Also remove the +30 dex from it. We don't need more dexterity, alright? We've got it on Finesse and Perfect Aim already. God help us, we'll have 3,000 points worth of it by the time we touch red or blue whether we want it or not. No Dex on Kittyheart thankyou.)

* Perfect Aim has to be made even more badass, and apply to physical melee damage as well. Yes, it's pretty weird. It won't break the world if its domain is broadened, and is necessary to enable the Shadow Route. At least, without a massive rework of the area.

* Make the Shield block nodes generic, like the ones in the center of the tree. It'd go along with the theme of Weapon Artistry - giving her the illusion of flexibility.

* I'd make Weapon Artistry give 4% block. There's just something so... unaesthetic about 3%.


Honestly, the Ranger's Melee route "should" fork upward to begin with. The alternative is to make Artistry and Panther into separate paths. I've included a photoshoop to demonstrate:



(Heart of the Panther's position can be swapped with a Crap Melee node or whatever, so you don't have consecutive significant nodes. Trivial difference. Whatever.)

(Also it will be amusing to see the gamma slider finally implemented ingame when OLED brings back the color Black to people's monitors.)

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I couldn't afford to get diamond skin

As a Ranger, you frankly can't afford to not get Diamond Skin.

(As a melee DW Ranger, I frankly only used the Evasion path to get out of there. I will never play SheepDicer again until they improve the poor lass.)

Honestly, without a route that leads to the shadow, universal block%, and/or some kittens we haven't heard about yet, support for this variant is at 50% at best.

I don't even feel like the offensive nodes are a problem in that area, chiefly because, for about 50 different builds I have tried using the passive tree planner, I have yet to come up with an alternative that actually uses offensive nodes.

It's just incredibly hard to even get the basic requirements for a melee build, i.e. upwards of +100% life and some resists. Especially if you want to base your ranger on some kind of playstyle idea (for me, that is getting all the frenzy charges) instead of just doing a "female duelist".

Access to the shadow tree is actually relatively straightforward, its only 3 points in dex to get from the ranger frenzy node to teh shadow frenzy node. But if I do that, I end up with a 300 dex character that has neither life, nor mana. Here are the Problems that I found most taxing:

- Very limited access to life
- Very limited access to mana with no way to get either a decent mana regen or Blood magic
- Decent resists can only be gotten from the shadow area
- Acrobatics or Iron Reflexes are the only viable defensive options. Building Hybrid is next to impossible
- Critical strike multiplier is just completely worthless because you cannot get a decent crit chance anyways
- for the same reason, foils suck.

Ok, the last one is not a passive tree issue, but seriously, what's with the foils? 20% critical strike multiplier on a weapon with 5% crit chance and in a tree with access to only 2 crit chance nodes?

So either we decide that a melee ranger is just not intended to be playable and just drop all pretense of melee nodes alltogether, or we need to give melee rangers (and probably duelists, too) some means of effectively organizing their defense. Having a directly accessible phase acrobatics node without the stupid drawbacks of going full acrobatics might reall help. Evading spells is the one thing no-one else can do, so why not give that to the ranger. Maybe combine that with the current (and stupidly OP) Arrow dodging into a general "projectile dodging" Keystone with associated minor passives. A useful drawback might be sacrificing a large portion of your accuracy.