[1.3] Fori's - Ghostflame SRS [ Hybrid / 1.2.2 Uber viable + Vid]

i want to see that !

why no cast speed ?

- We are quite short on passive points and feel like getting more ES is better than Cast speed. also you have vaal haste for difficult fights that will give cast speed. apart from that you dont really need more in my poinion

Awesome guide man, gratz on Uber kill!

So I've started a SRS character back when Ramp started using MatrixFactor's guide. It's an amazing, well thought out guide with loads of info. However I started watching Ghazzy's stream and I noticed a few differences. Primarily Curses, or the lack there of in the case of Ghazzy. I had been following MatrixFactor's guide as close as possible, as I went with a Scion for the hell of it. I had the double curse, messed around with curse on hit and all that jazz. The problem was, I never had time to cast them, everything died so fast there didn't seem to be a point. I was rather disenchanted with curses since they were taking up gem spots.

While watching Ghazzy's stream this question came up, and his short answer was "I don't have time to cast curses". Which was exactly what I found out. So I completely spec'ed out of curses and put those points into more ES and such. I literally see no drop off in DPS or clear speed. Frankly I clear faster now that I don't have to make myself curse. I just use double Vaal Haste and go crazy.

Watching Ghazzy do Ubers with no curses makes me question the need for them. He burns through that level 80 zone, and the bosses are melted really fast as well. So my question to you is this- How necessary are cruses in the long run?

I know Ghazzy has amazing gear so that has to factor in, but even then, what on his gear actually affects SRS that you don't have?

I mean I've seen all the number crunches that MatrixFactor has on his thread with curse, dual curse etc, and they are really impressive. However, I also witnessed the practical application of the Uber fight with Ghazzy without using curses. Just really confused. Thanks!

I mean there isn't that much to think about when it comes to curses. A build that uses curses when it's correct to use them will be better than a build that chooses to never use curses. (This is just by definition).

The simple inequality you have to solve is when is 1.3x more damage (for example when considering to use EW) for your existing spirits worth more than 1.7 additional spirits (the amount of spirits you could have cast in the time it takes you to cast a curse). When I did it, it was around the time when I had 6 spirits attacikng, 6*1.3=7.8>7.7=6+1.7.

They are a more multipliers either for your DPS (EW, Flam) or your Health (Enf) that take less than 0.5sec to cast, and take up one gem slot each. It doesn't get much better than that. 4 Points for double curse is also 4 points for either 20% more damage (Flam) or 35% more health (Enf). It's hard to get so much value out of 4 points any other way.

I get the what you are saying MatrixFactor. There is no confusion that with Curses there is more DPS on a target. However, the question I am trying convey is not if it's more DPS, but rather, is it actually needed? If everything is dead by the time you get to casting the curse what's the point? This is in regards to trash and Magic/Rare mobs.

As for boss mobs, lets take Atziri for the most extreme in difficulty. Watching Ghazzy do it, its really about getting as many SRS out, and insta ganking her in each phase before she has a chance to attack. i.e. the best defense is a powerful offense. This cannot be accomplished if you take the time to cast a curse(s). At least from what I have seen watching Ghazzy. It seems that doing anything other than getting SRS out during phase splits in Uber is suicide. And with normal Atziri she's dead in each phase before it even starts. So in both instances, no time/need for curses.

So back to map trash; is it worth filling up a four link with curses and supports if you never use them in the map? On boss fights is it worth doing the same thing when all you need to do is get out as many SRS's as you can in the shortest amount of time?

On all three boss fights in the Atziri maps you take time to setup, cast Desecrate, Vaal Summon Skeletons, Vaal Haste, Flesh Offering, SRS's etc. This also applies to many of the harder normal map bosses. When doing all that the bosses die so fast that sometimes it happens off screen. So you never get a chance to even cast a curse.

I'm just trying to look at it objectively based off what I have seen from other players and what I have experienced myself. So those four points spent for double curse may not be as effective as one might think. So MatrixFactor, I have to disagree with your opening sentence; there is more to think about in regards to curses other than the obvious. Just throwing this out there wanting some feedback. If this is criticism, then I hope it's taken as constructive criticism, I'm just trying to ask questions to spark a conversation to try to optimize this build as best as possible is all.

Don't worry I consider all input objectively.

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However, the question I am trying convey is not if it's more DPS, but rather, is it actually needed? If everything is dead by the time you get to casting the curse what's the point? This is in regards to trash and Magic/Rare mobs.

How do you decide if something is needed? In my opinion if it objectively boosts your DPS, it's needed. This will happen whenever any fight invloves at least 6 spirits attacking. If your definition of "necessity" is a binary sense of ability to kill mobs, then no curses aren't needed, but then neither is a 6L.

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Watching Ghazzy do it, its really about getting as many SRS out, and insta ganking her in each phase before she has a chance to attack.

At split phase of atziri your SRS count should be at ~15 since you have 3 sec to precast with vaal haste when the split phase starts. If your goal is to DPS the clone down asap, then casting a curse will increase your DPS by more than casting spirits.

Ghazzy is running a low life SRS build which means he can use an extra aura (Anger) in his case. which give a huge dmg boost.

I am playing on rampage, and I try to create a build how to kill uber in the cheapest build.
Ghazzy has almost best in slot items on all his gear. - In a challenger league It will be difficult to craft best in slot items on all your gear. - which leads to Matrix and My point of view.
To make an SRS guide uber viable cheap.

I played many uber runs myself where I was at the stage that I could do it but felt like I still need improvements without spending too much. and the idea was about the curses.
( get your point that things die really fast and in maps I dont even use curses even tho I have 3 curse now) When I think about curses I think of the split phase of uber atziri. - Which is the hardest part for all SRS players. - So I just want to counter that the best possible way I can

I have not tried the 3 curse yet on uber, I will as soon as I get a Hope.- then I will update this build. and probably make a video explaining everything in detail.

Hope this answered some questions @TirpitzLuminare

Yeah you both answered some questions, makes a lot of sense, thank you. So it seems that curses, for the most part, are best suited for the Uber fight. As due to the nature of the build there is literally no time to apply curses on maps/normal Atziri, due to kill speed. This was my query. I also spaced the Anger in Ghazzy's build, that is an insane dps increase. Something that's isn't really viable without Shav's, which defeats the purpose of the "cheap" part of the build.

As for curse application then, on the Uber fight. Would Curse on Hit be better than individually casting 2-3 curses? You only have so many skill buttons also. I think this is what turned me off about dual curses was the lack of skill buttons. I have always have move only on left click and I couldn't get over putting SRS or something else there, it's just ingrained. I'm a long ways off from Uber's though.

One last thing. Did you use a CWDT set up, if so at what level did you spec out of it? I'm level 85 and still using it... It's like a crutch I think. I just dropped EB this level also, so my mana reserve took a big hit. Only have 110 unreserved mana currently. Still using a 5L though. Switched Clarity to BM. Running Haste, Discipline, Hatred on mana. Mana regen is fine for running AA, so that's good, I was worried about that. So its a transitional period for me atm. Thanks again both of you for this build, its so much fun.

Currently im testing the arc + curse on hit + 3 curse but I would do dual curse manual.
I had 4link CWDT setup when I was lvling, respecced of that around 80ish when I dropped my zombies too.

Ye, its fun. the most powerful spec I ever played

Ok I updated the Gear / Passive tree section with triple curse setup.