1.3 LL BM Summoner - Atziri viable on a budget (142k - 282k Single dps - 4link only - MF viable)

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noobdw wrote:

how much ES do you have?

4.1k with solaris.

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Grimlocke_ wrote:

For players who love summoners, definitively a build to look forward to.

Just a few notions for skeptical players who have the need to be invincible:

- replacing +2 minion helm with alpha's (+8 more reduced mana res = one more aura, immunity to freezes, great synergy with IR) - once zombies are level 20 and supported with all bm summoner's auras, they are already capable of taking on any high-level map damage and surviving (still might require convocating out of dominus with multiple projectiles channel), two more levels are just a flavor

- dropping body and soul cluster and taking IR instead makes this summoner almost invincible (around 16k armor with alphas and auras, around 68% armor mitigation), allows taking Unwavering stance for stun immunity (since we are there already and it's just one point)


With just these two minor changes, bm summoner can literally sit near enemy packs and hardly take any damage at all (purities + huge innate physical mitigation + freeze/stun immunities).

Definitely not needed, just putting it here for the aforementioned types.

how are you taking IR with just 6 points? IR is a long way gone, and i dont feel like phys dmg is the stuff that kills me. My zombies blind.

About the alpha's howl, your kind of right, apart from the fact that our helmet gives ES, and trust me, even just 100 Es is a huge deal (this translates to about 300-400ES on our pool).

both are options, but not with solaris lorica, more so with shavs since then you can afford to lose your es.

Most important reason for the +2 helmet tho is not the health or survivability of the zombies but the damage output. the difference is huge. running 1 extra aura or getting +2 on hatred/haste isnt worth the loss in zombie dps

Don't you have life regen from tree? If you're casting 1L or 2L skills I don't see the need for vitality. If you have to spam resummon zombies, you already have a animating flask which you can use specifically in that instance.

I personally would never play summoner without Dur-VHaste and EE, because nothing can come close to matching the DPS it adds for the socket/skillpoints it costs. Also not using Dur on Vhaste: if Vhaste adds 50k DPS why would you want that for 6sec rather than 10-11sec... I would also never play a ES-based char without VDisc. Grace helps you against some forms of phys damage, but Vdisc helps you against all damage. Purities I can understand as "budget" consideration, but if you're farming atziri I'd think you could afford stuff with good resists.

Saying stuff like

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40% evasion for both you and your minions a lot. its a lot. lets keep it at that.

makes me think you want people to just assume your build is optimal, and not discuss your choices. Maybe if you used VHaste+Flesh Off+EE you wouldn't need to have grace for trio, and you would have higher DPS everywhere else as well...

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MatrixFactor wrote:

Don't you have life regen from tree? If you're casting 1L or 2L skills I don't see the need for vitality. If you have to spam resummon zombies, you already have a animating flask which you can use specifically in that instance.

I personally would never play summoner without Dur-VHaste and EE, because nothing can come close to matching the DPS it adds for the socket/skillpoints it costs. Also not using Dur on Vhaste: if Vhaste adds 50k DPS why would you want that for 6sec rather than 10-11sec... I would also never play a ES-based char without VDisc. Grace helps you against some forms of phys damage, but Vdisc helps you against all damage. Purities I can understand as "budget" consideration, but if you're farming atziri I'd think you could afford stuff with good resists.

No i dont. I use vitality only for the regen. it suffices and i wouldnt need to "waste" points into the tree. Vitality on the other hand is the thing that keeps my minions alive together with their personal regen. I can severely notice it when i dont use it.



For the vhaste stuff, i agree, once again, i wouldnt link it to inc duration tho, since again, i dont have the slots. If you want to play it that way, fine, but i wont. Im satisfied with the dps. I can do any content without having to feel that my clear speed is too low (rather have movespeed myself, since thats the only thing thats keeping me within check.

For the vdisc stuff, i agree, vdisc is really powerful. But i dont take dmg. My minions dont die. Why would i? If i do take dmg, its because I get gangbanged, and popping vdisc at that point is either too late (because im dead already) or unneccesary (because either i got away or my minions took them out. Its not worth a slot for me since i dont need to facetank stuff. Only reason i would use it is for atziri's double flameblast when i see i cant get away and prox shields are down. only reason.

Purities are a budget option? Huh? I run purity of elements for my minions. without it they dont have capped res. I run PoF/L/I for the specific bosses. thats all. I might have explained this wrong. anyways, zombies arent SRS which basically take a lot less dmg from most elemental stuff and if they die, whatever, you are constantly summoning. but now try to run into a pack of dischargers and their belonging freeze pulsing friends without poe on. your zombies get shocked and frozen and they are gone.

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Saying stuff like

"

40% evasion for both you and your minions a lot. its a lot. lets keep it at that.

makes me think you want people to just assume your build is optimal, and not discuss your choices. Maybe if you used VHaste+Flesh Off+EE you wouldn't need to have grace for trio, and you would have higher DPS everywhere else as well...

Saying that 40% evasion is a lot, doesnt come from assuming, it comes from testing. Did you really think I havent run without grace? This is the difference:

with grace: Can do any map (up to 78), triboss, and the like without getting even close to dying if I dont walk up front.

without grace: Almost instagibbed by lunaris 3 tittybitches . (Since i was Mfing her i dropped grace and PoE for PoF+L+I so i could use IIR/IIQ gear (one of them in my ring, so I didnt have a vaal skill anymore, but then again, does vhaste save you from dying?)

But im probably assuming. Did you run a summoner? a real summoner? Or did you run the snapshotted bullcrap and assume you know everything now because you could run uber with that?

the thing is. Just dropping grace is not gonna allow me to run EE and Vhaste. Im not dropping anything else. I already agreed upon using vhaste, as soon as i get able to. why push me toward EE, which not only takes me a skillpoint, but also takes up at least 1 gem slot? It sounds small, but I, and trust me on this, have no slots left over.

Helm = zombies
Shield = purities
wand = convocation, flesh/bone offering (depending on situation), desecrate
Chest = Damage aura's / Evangelists (latter in case of shavs, which i will get eventually)
Boots = Evangelists / Damage aura's

Ring = Vaal haste.

Second ring (If I actually get an upgrade, and even tho i do atziri, im not rich. getting dex (high amount), ES, and res on an unset, which also has a suffix left for the %ES craft, is not cheap. Not even to mention it needs a shitton of res) is the only place i could even think of putting Vdisc / EE skill. Or i could put Vaal haste in wand instead of desecrate and convocation and work increased duration in there. If. but, that still leaves me with a 1 out of 3 of which you think I can do all.

Long story short. I never will say your ideas are wrong. but when you can farm any non-uber content in terms of dps. Why the heck would you want more? Killing something in 2 seconds instead of 4 doesnt prevent them from killing you. Or your minions. For SRS I would actually agree, since more dps means more survivability since you have to actually stand still to do dps. You would be more survivable if you would be able to sidestep and such more often with it. For me. I already can sidestep anything. Im not an IR-EB-MoM char, so im not build for facetanking anything, thus, i dont have a setup that is leaning towards facetanking (Vdisc), nor do I have the urge to drop auras that keep me and my minions alive.

Interesting build, just a few questions.

1. When did you transition from "leveling" to zombies/evangelists?

2. What did you do about bandits, Just kill them always?

3. How do you get 4k ES with only the helmet really attributing any significant ES?

4. When did you go BM/Mortal Conviction?

Edit: Sorry about number 3, I misread Discipline for Determination, thought that was just armor/evasion(grace). Makes more sense now.

When you're farming piety/dom/maps, which shield do you use? Rathpith?

Appreciate the thorough response. I actually did play a non-snapshot CI summoner as my first character (Rathik's build), and I also played SRS as my best character ever. ^^

My point about the purities is you can replace the double individual purities with vdisc, but keep purity of elements for zombie/eva res. For example when fighting shrine piety or magera, pop vdisc and kill her. Instead of running poi or pof use vdisc. Instead of RM-PoI-PoF you can have Dur-VHaste-VDisc.

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Just dropping grace is not gonna allow me to run EE and Vhaste. Im not dropping anything else. I already agreed upon using vhaste, as soon as i get able to. why push me toward EE, which not only takes me a skillpoint, but also takes up at least 1 gem slot? It sounds small, but I, and trust me on this, have no slots left over.

With SRS gem slots are the same story. When preparing for 1.2 I simply had to reject several trees for lack of gem slots. The current build I posted was made by iterating thinking about tree and then thinking about gem slots. About grace, right I would also drop poi, and pof, while keeping poe.

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but when you can farm any non-uber content in terms of dps. Why the heck would you want more? Killing something in 2 seconds instead of 4 doesnt prevent them from killing you. Or your minions.

This is ultimately where I can't argue with you. It's obviously your choice to make a build how you wish. My point was that you could get significantly more DPS without (IMO) sacrificing much defenses. If you believe otherwise, that's absolutely fair.

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xemath wrote:

Interesting build, just a few questions.

1. When did you transition from "leveling" to zombies/evangelists?

2. What did you do about bandits, Just kill them always?

3. How do you get 4k ES with only the helmet really attributing any significant ES?

4. When did you go BM/Mortal Conviction?

Edit: Sorry about number 3, I misread Discipline for Determination, thought that was just armor/evasion(grace). Makes more sense now.

1. I leveled with storm call, leveled zombies and spectre gem as soon as i got them while also summoning them besides my storm call. You basically go out through the spell dmg start, up to the elemental dominion, and from there go for summon nodes and aura nodes, of course picking up life on the way if you feel the need to, or going for es nodes if you think you can handle it. My summons only started working much in act 2, where i used Lmp incinerate snakes, or anything that works with lmp. After cruel sceptre of god you use evangelists all the way but before you dont apart from act 1 cruel.

2. Kill all. your a summoner

3. discipline puts in 2.3k es on its own. add gloves (150) and helm (200) and its there. I have about 300-400%ish increased es total?

4. BM as as possible. What i did Is go down on the right, to the scion, up on the left, to the templar, all around and to bm. On the way i picked the blocks: lord of the dead. grave intensions, death attunement, unnatural calm and body and soul. All the other stuff got picked up after BM.

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When you're farming piety/dom/maps, which shield do you use? Rathpith?

Rathpith if i had it. Currently saffels but i would recommend rathpith (more dmg, and more general block)

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MatrixFactor wrote:

Appreciate the thorough response. I actually did play a non-snapshot CI summoner as my first character (Rathik's build), and I also played SRS as my best character ever. ^^

My point about the purities is you can replace the double individual purities with vdisc, but keep purity of elements for zombie/eva res. For example when fighting shrine piety or magera, pop vdisc and kill her. Instead of running poi or pof use vdisc. Instead of RM-PoI-PoF you can have Dur-VHaste-VDisc.

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Just dropping grace is not gonna allow me to run EE and Vhaste. Im not dropping anything else. I already agreed upon using vhaste, as soon as i get able to. why push me toward EE, which not only takes me a skillpoint, but also takes up at least 1 gem slot? It sounds small, but I, and trust me on this, have no slots left over.

With SRS gem slots are the same story. When preparing for 1.2 I simply had to reject several trees for lack of gem slots. The current build I posted was made by iterating thinking about tree and then thinking about gem slots. About grace, right I would also drop poi, and pof, while keeping poe.

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but when you can farm any non-uber content in terms of dps. Why the heck would you want more? Killing something in 2 seconds instead of 4 doesnt prevent them from killing you. Or your minions.

This is ultimately where I can't argue with you. It's obviously your choice to make a build how you wish. My point was that you could get significantly more DPS without (IMO) sacrificing much defenses. If you believe otherwise, that's absolutely fair.

About dropping the individual purities, Its a thing. Might do it for maps. For atziri it wouldnt work tho. I dont feel comfortable using vdisc instead of PoF + L in that fight just knowing i wont take all 3 split phases down in the same 5-6 seconds. This is also the main reason I dont really bother about vdisc for maps, running PoF does essentially the same as Vdisc vs megara, apart from PoF actually having the capability of coming on any moment, not disappearing because of random stun (random leapers, etc), and such. Its a bit less reliable but indeed more powerful for what it does. For the tougher bosses like palace dominus or the new revamped merveil I wouldnt ever think about it tho. I dont think that even with vaal haste i would be able to take the first form dominus down within 5 seconds. Not until I get 6link spectres.

You know, I will try to get my hands onto the Vdisc, put it in there, and try to swap it around with PoL + RM in my crest for whenever i dont need the PoL/F/I.

Would it be a big deal if im going for montreguls instead of having one more spectre?

Also, how much IIR IIQ could i possibly get using culling strike?

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dr460nf1r3 wrote:

Would it be a big deal if im going for montreguls instead of having one more spectre?

Also, how much IIR IIQ could i possibly get using culling strike?

Going montreguls will add survivability at the cost of overall dps (1 less specter, only 4 zombies - assuming you have 8-9). I think it's viable as a iir/iiq farmer tbh. Since you drop midnight bargain you can run all purities as well as the other auras, or even add wrath and go EE.

Conclusion: Your zombies will be tanky as fuck, but you'll do lower overall dps, I'd probably add melee splash to zombie gems in helm to make up for the reduced # of max zombies to clear packs faster.

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twapper wrote:

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dr460nf1r3 wrote:

Would it be a big deal if im going for montreguls instead of having one more spectre?

Also, how much IIR IIQ could i possibly get using culling strike?

Going montreguls will add survivability at the cost of overall dps (1 less specter, only 4 zombies - assuming you have 8-9). I think it's viable as a iir/iiq farmer tbh. Since you drop midnight bargain you can run all purities as well as the other auras, or even add wrath and go EE.

Conclusion: Your zombies will be tanky as fuck, but you'll do lower overall dps, I'd probably add melee splash to zombie gems in helm to make up for the reduced # of max zombies to clear packs faster.

What twapper says. Montegruls allows for more purities, meaning you can run more Mf gear. Wondertrap, sadima's, dual andvarius, perandus belt, good IIR ammy would be the max setup id go for tho, of course, putting in divination distilate :). If your spectres are using culling and IIR, you should get about:

100% (wondertrap) + 60% x 2 (andvarius med rolled) + 67% (gem) + 60% (GG ammy) = 347% iir +/- 60% from divination

16% (sadima's) + 8% (perandus) = 24% Iiq +/- 18% from divination.

You'd be able to use wheel of the stormsail and a IIR helmet for dominus too if you want, but for map clearing I wouldnt, since youd lose out on significant amounts of dps and survivability.