I managed to grab almost every damn dual-wield block node, resulting into massive 58% block chance (and with BoR it will be freaking 73% - so BoR is pretty desirable there). Also i grabbed a lot of crit, damage and attack speed. Unwavering stance is also there.
I think, that using swords for critical strikes isnt a good idea.
Why not? Because I'll get about twice the crit chance with daggers?
I don't actually need more overall crit chance. This would just be "DpS", a number I don't care too much about.
The 40% crit you'll easily get with swords is more than enough for:
Crit at least once every second and use the sweet overkill damage for Herald of Ash Proliferation.
"
Also, dont really see any "boosts" for HoA proliferation, except, maybe, critical strikes themselves. I dont think they're really need for a working build, though.
"Need for a working build"?
If you want to use Herald of Ash to its full potential, you want to overkill for some sexy damage, or else it isnt worth it. Crit is one way to go, using a beefed up single target attack another.
Don't see anything wrong with my approach, as it obviously works.
You have very little actual damage in your tree, which is also required (can't just go crit and nothing else).
You have zero mana management nodes (which will probably force you to go BM gem), and you have spent 5 points more.
You may like yours more, I prefer my version.
I doubt class choice makes that huge of a difference, you can build very similar trees with all four classes. I chose Marauder because of his looks and because of he's sitting somewhere near some of the nodes I wanted, while getting a sweet chunk of life and utility in the starting zone.
You have very little actual damage in your tree, which is also required (can't just go crit and nothing else).
You have zero mana management nodes (which will probably force you to go BM gem), and you have spent 5 points more.
You may like yours more, I prefer my version.
I doubt class choice makes that huge of a difference, you can build very similar trees with all four classes. I chose Marauder because of his looks and because of he's sitting somewhere near some of the nodes I wanted, while getting a sweet chunk of life and utility in the starting zone.[/quote]
I doubt mana management will be a problem. Cleave and Dual Strike are both cheap abilities. I consider using new "+20-40% leech rate" gloves mod (from Vorici). With it, a bit of mana leech from gear will be more that enough to sustain cleave or dual strike, i believe.
I also doubt i have little actual damage. 307% increased damage from skill gem+strength+tree is good enough, and melee splash/multistrike will add another +57% each (if you decide to use them - not really neded, though). And what more important - there is +68% increased attack speed, so you can drop Faster Attacks gem, and use Increased Critical Damage gem, to skyrocket crit (=overkill) damage (although it can be dangerous vs reflect).
As for nodes - i got more than you mostly because of Unwavering Stance - that's 6 nodes spent.
You probably wont be beating DPS records with swords, but since you can get a sword with increased crit chance for almost the same price as "normal" sword, i think it's pretty ok.
Axes should do it well, too. If my Molten Strike build fails, i'll try this one.
My apology, I dont speak eanglish, or my eanglish is so pathetic. :(
But it is unimportant. :d
Im trying your build. Level 29, 440 DPS, lot of fun indeed, Cleave + Herald Of Ash is big fun. :) I know, its normal, where every win but I feel in my bones, this build can work. :d
I will write some on Cruel.
Cya.
Last edited by UkrytyNaWidoku on Sep 13, 2014, 8:38:28 AM
You probably wont be beating DPS records with swords, but since you can get a sword with increased crit chance for almost the same price as "normal" sword, i think it's pretty ok.
This. :)
And remember: it's not about "how to do the most crit damage while dualwielding", it's more about "how to make a marauder dualwield crit swords". ;)
And as long as I'm easily outDpSing any Resolute Technique build I ever played, I'm pretty happy.
"
Axes should do it well, too. If my Molten Strike build fails, i'll try this one.
I like swords more. They have a sexy crit cluster, have accuracy, have the 4% block notable... And they are the most flexible, you can iE switch to whirling blades as movement skill.
Unfortunatly my computer is a little old and I have no hacking skillz whatsoever, so you have to live with three fraps recorded fragments glued together. I also lag a lot while recording, so please forgive me for horrible gameplay. ;)
Map: Strand Lvl 71 with more magic monsters, +30% monster life.
As someone asked about rock golems, I also murdered some rock golems for you.
I use the conc effect setup (~30k DpS), so most of the AoE is coming from Herald of Ash.
Added a section with my general thoughts about the game in the second post:
"going crit with swords"
"the state of dualwielding"
"the state of melee"
"the state of the economy"
In Gameplay and Feedback section, you'll usually find a thread that says "Daggers are overpowered".
Usually you'll also find someone complaining that Dagger builds with insane gear will walk around with 300k DpS, while Axe/Sword builds only achieve some 20-30k DpS, meaning: Daggers are ten times as strong.
To me, this is horseshit.
Yes, Daggers are the better weapons, there's no denying. They have the same base damage, their passives are at least as valuable as those of other weapons, and they have access to a wide selection of skills and support gems, so they are equal in most aspects, but have a higher crit chance, which makes them straight up better weapons.
Yes, Dagger builds will end up with more DpS.
But:
Dagger builds will not do ten times as much damage. This difference doesn't (only) come from the weapon type being overpowered, it is a result of Resolute Technique.
In Path of Exile, stacking up DpS is a game of "stacking multipliers".
A x (B+C+D) is worse than A x B x C x D (for B,C,D >1).
With Resolute Technique, you are restricting your DpS, you are limiting yourself, because "Crit Multiplier" is one of the, if not the strongest damage multipliers in the game.
So the question is not:
Why would you use a sword in a crit build? Go Dagger!
It is:
Why would you ever want Resolute Technique if you could go Crit?
The disadvantage of a sword to a dagger is then reduced to:
*Around 6.5% base crit vs around 10% base crit (2/3 of crit chance)
*No Power Charges in the area where you find sword nodes
This translates into - with equal (mirrored and ubercrazy) gear:
If a crit dagger build does 300k DpS, a crit sword build will do 150-200k DpS.
And that's something I'm fine with. Daggers could be nerfed a bit, but not too much.
---
Dualwielding vs Shield in 1.2
Spoiler
I think Dualwielding is in a pretty good spot right now.
1. Significantly more DpS
a) You gain a small "more physical damage" multiplier and a little attackspeed bonus just by equipping a second weapon (again: multipliers are great!).
b) Dualwield attacks are better than singlehanded attacks. In example, Cleave jumps from 100-> 130%, and Dualstrike's 200% damage efficiency easily beats a skill like Heavy Strike (140%).
You pay the price in a lower block chance and defensive stats.
2. Offensive secondary effects
Your typical "dualwield block" cluster looks like this:
+8% dualwield block, +24% physical damage while dualwielding
Your typical shield block cluster on the other hand:
+8% shield block, +50% increased defenses/block recovery
Sounds fair, but...
a) the bulk of you armor comes from auras and flasks, even with a shield build
b) block recovery is imho a 100% useless stat, I have never felt I suffered any block animation.
% Damage on the other hand is always great. Obviously.
3. Do I really need 75% block?
75% block is obviously better than the 48% block this build is walking around with.
But...
With block chance, I always had the feeling that it isn't really worth stacking it to the extreme.
To get the maximum amount, you have to invest a lot of skillpoints, skillpoints that could also be damage or straight up life. You won't find enough block in any area of the skilltree, you'll have to travel quite a bit to stack it, and on top of that, shield block nodes don't provide damage (like Dualwield Block nodes), so the damage advantage of dualwielding rises and rises.
You also have to keep in mind that you are probably using life leech, life regen and a high life pool.
If you block each and every attack, those stats are basically wasted. In my shield block builds, I ended up walking around with close to full hitpoints 99% of time (equipping for the 1% is good in Hardcore, but in Softcore?), so I basically didn't use half my defensive resources.
That is not economical.
There's nothing wrong with taking damage, that's why you have a life pool and life recovery mechanics.
You want some block not to get overwhelmed, but even with shields, I felt that going for the maximum comes at too big of a cost with too small of an actual benefit.
The main drawback is now related to Uniques: you don't have infinite ES from Aegis Aurora or cheap max spellblock from Saffell.
Overall:
Dualwielding now does significantly more damage, the loss of defenses is there, but it isn't that huge.
---
The state of melee
Spoiler
Going Melee is obviously weaker than going range.
There's a reason why modern soldiers use rifles instead of axes (except in warhammer 40k).
1. You have to "close the gap", which takes time.
2. You take more damage from melee monsters that can be kited by ranged builds.
3. You don't have a significant bonus in offense or defense (that's a disadvantage of such an open skilltree, anyone can take the same defenses, they are not restricted to certain playstyles like in other games).
In other games, you will find mages and rangers to be quite squishy, they need their range because when they are hit, they are pretty much dead.
In PoE, they are as tanky as marauders, if they want to be.
However this doesn't mean that you can't go melee in this game.
I'm a huge fan of melee, I play it in any ARPG. And PoE is no exception.
It still provides all the tools you need.
You have "gap closing" skills like leap sla, whirling blades, flicker strike.
You can tank up enough to sustain being in the middle of everything.
You have access to very potent skills and support gems.
You are playing at a disadvantage, but since I don't compete with anyone, why would I care? It's not going to stop me from hitting monsters in the face with badass weapons.
---
The state of the economy
Spoiler
I'm not a "rich" player.
This is my Rampage currency (my standard currency stash tab doesn't look much better):
Holy shit a Divine Orb!
I use/waste my orbs on all kinds of items, I buy items from other players, but I generally don't sell too many (I give them for free to friends most of the time).
I'm also not really "farming for money" (like "doing Piety 24/7, stacking up Alts to vendor for fusing to trade for exalts"), so I'll most likely never have any access to any "tier 1 item".
All the sweet things I ever bought came from this:
One day a strong Unique will drop. It did in every league, it also hopefully will drop in Rampage.
I'll most likely not need it. So I sell it for some Exalted Orbs and buy something else.
This is literally the only form of me getting "richer". Like many other players, I'm not the kind of guy to "work" in a game, I prefer to "play" it.
Does that put me on a disadvantage?
Sure.
Do I care?
No.
It's as simple as that. Yes, there may be mirrors, insane uniques, some monster called "Uber Atziri" and Level 100 in this game, but if I am to work hard to ever get there, I'm fine not to have access.
I hate this whining.
Find your spot in this game, accept it and move on. If you want to have everything anytime, play a game that provides that.
You're absolutely right there. Except two things - Dual Strike deals 180% of base damage (if not consider DW bonus itself), and Heavy Strike deals 150% (not 140%).
I want to add my 2 cents about melee, too. PoE is suffering greatly from desync, and melee players suffer most from it, because they dont have massive AoE (this would mean they're "ranged" in fact) and rely upon movement when attacking (ranged dont have to move really - he can just shot everything from a single spot)
