The true silent victim of 1.2.0 - mines

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Nerazul wrote:

I actually like the change. Here are a few points:

- Anyone claiming the "majority" does or does not like it should have their current and past arguments taken out back and shot. There is no way the majority of people using mines have posted in this thread and/or personally given you feedback.

- Regardless of the conservatives' arguments, the "hold shift" solution is a solution that basically gives everyone what they are asking for. Yes, there is an extra button to hold to drop it at your feet without moving, but muscle memory is a wonderful thing! Seriously, after a couple days you won't even notice you're doing it. I look at it like this: Shift solution means you guys have a slight inconvenience that you get used to quickly while we have quite a bit of variance, whereas just going back to the old system means you don't need to adapt and our new system is just destroyed. Is change really that hard to swallow? Teach your fingers to learn the new system and you will find that you have *more* control over how and where you lay your mines. If you refuse to do that, ask yourself why you are so vehemently opposing this change. Could it be that you just don't want to adapt to a potentially better system? Evolution would cast you aside, my friends. Okay, that's a bit extreme, but you get the point.

- I can get behind the toggle thing because it doesn't involve throwing out a skill mechanic altogether because people can't be bothered to learn to use something that is more efficient than it was previously.

- [persuasive points supporting the new system]

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Disrupted wrote:

1. I said I believe the majority, keyword believe, ofc I know the majority will never post here (only could say it clearly absolutely sure that it would jokingly as there are so little mine users). Also no, that does not invalidate the rest, no matter how you wish it did. (if anything you avoiding some points just shows how strong they are, and one who's willing to evolve does not shy away from problems that contradict their beliefs)

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Disrupted wrote:

2. Regardless of you saying it gives it does not give. toggle would give.
Seriously, do you just spout out stuff as if its true hoping that people will believe?
I understand the getting used to it, and I could, but you are clearly avoiding all the other points, desync stil exists and this change still causes problems that never existed in the first place. Might not be too much for you when a RIP happens due to this but to a HC player it is . (yes, I know I shouldnt go there, but you avoiding the points makes me think you believe them to be irrelevant due to that).
I was always one who tries to evolve and I would go with it if it wasnt for the problems it causes, potentially better my ass, better for new players (Hell, I adapted to previous mine system, I could use the same argument against you, since its the only skills in game that differed so much from others, if you didnt like it back then, maybe it was because you didnt try to adapt?), worse regarding game mechanics.

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Disrupted wrote:

3.Toggle I agree. Except for the part where you say current one is more efficient. At least back up your arguments, I already did numerous times in this thread and other linked.

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Disrupted wrote:

4.What is this I dont even

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Nerazul wrote:

"

Nerazul wrote:

I actually like the change. Here are a few points:

- Anyone claiming the "majority" does or does not like it should have their current and past arguments taken out back and shot. There is no way the majority of people using mines have posted in this thread and/or personally given you feedback.

- Regardless of the conservatives' arguments, the "hold shift" solution is a solution that basically gives everyone what they are asking for. Yes, there is an extra button to hold to drop it at your feet without moving, but muscle memory is a wonderful thing! Seriously, after a couple days you won't even notice you're doing it. I look at it like this: Shift solution means you guys have a slight inconvenience that you get used to quickly while we have quite a bit of variance, whereas just going back to the old system means you don't need to adapt and our new system is just destroyed. Is change really that hard to swallow? Teach your fingers to learn the new system and you will find that you have *more* control over how and where you lay your mines. If you refuse to do that, ask yourself why you are so vehemently opposing this change. Could it be that you just don't want to adapt to a potentially better system? Evolution would cast you aside, my friends. Okay, that's a bit extreme, but you get the point.

- I can get behind the toggle thing because it doesn't involve throwing out a skill mechanic altogether because people can't be bothered to learn to use something that is more efficient than it was previously.

- [persuasive points supporting the new system]

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Disrupted wrote:

1. I said I believe the majority, keyword believe, ofc I know the majority will never post here (only could say it clearly absolutely sure that it would jokingly as there are so little mine users). Also no, that does not invalidate the rest, no matter how you wish it did. (if anything you avoiding some points just shows how strong they are, and one who's willing to evolve does not shy away from problems that contradict their beliefs)

I'm not exactly sure which "points" you think you made that I avoided. At best, we had a colorful list of anecdotes which repeated the same point: You don't like the new system. Seriously, you have one point repeated, and that point is that activating the skill at the mouse pointer location, you believe, is a step backward.

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Disrupted wrote:

2. Regardless of you saying it gives it does not give. toggle would give.
Seriously, do you just spout out stuff as if its true hoping that people will believe?
I understand the getting used to it, and I could, but you are clearly avoiding all the other points, desync stil exists and this change still causes problems that never existed in the first place. Might not be too much for you when a RIP happens due to this but to a HC player it is . (yes, I know I shouldnt go there, but you avoiding the points makes me think you believe them to be irrelevant due to that).
I was always one who tries to evolve and I would go with it if it wasnt for the problems it causes, potentially better my ass, better for new players (Hell, I adapted to previous mine system, I could use the same argument against you, since its the only skills in game that differed so much from others, if you didnt like it back then, maybe it was because you didnt try to adapt?), worse regarding game mechanics.

Well, I suppose I didn't address the desync issue you brought up, but that is because desync itself needs to be addressed entirely by the devs. Again, if you hold shift there is no new desync issue. Also, again, I don't think anyone who likes the new system would disagree with a toggle option either - I'm with you there. Regarding everything else, if you believe that insulting someone and their arguments is a good strategy, I'd suggest reading about fallacies.

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Disrupted wrote:

3.Toggle I agree. Except for the part where you say current one is more efficient. At least back up your arguments, I already did numerous times in this thread and other linked.

I did back up my argument. All the words before and after the argument itself were me doing precisely that. The muscle memory thing, the fact that we now have two options, the fact that the original system can be mimicked simply by holding shift, etc. You didn't read that stuff?

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Disrupted wrote:

4.What is this I dont even

I can't even your don't even.

Also, do you really think this point is so important that you need to continuously bump it? There are hundreds of things more pressing than your inability to adapt which are being pushed down because you feel the need to bump this nonsense constantly. Let people read and respond accordingly. If the thread dies, it was meant to - unless, of course, your ego just can't let that happen.

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Nerazul wrote:

Try being more neutral and objective a few times.