Suggestions on how to improve Beyond.

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almostdead wrote:

I don't think one should compare softcore challenge leagues with hardcore challenge leagues.

Looking at hardcore challenge leagues we have:
Onslaught (+20% bonus to move speed and attack/cast speed)
Nemesis (Rare monster had one additional mod)
Invasion (Invading monsters with a boss)

If I recall correctly none of those leagues offered increased drops and their main purpose was to "kill" players. Beyond seems quite similar.

Someone that gets it.... You sir, and people like you, gives me hope.... that mankind is not yet lost.

I'm guessing everyone that complains was never around for Onslaught because... that perma turbo.... No reward. No reason. Just because. Everything killed you faster. Nemesis was let go because some mods were just plain bad.... Vile touch.... wtf GGG.... and they put inner treasure in that was actually not a negative mod at all but I guess they had to for consistence with the very rare but out there, wealthy affix.

So in short, GGG messed up by not making Nemesis completely screw you over as it's predecessor, Onslaught, and it's successor, Invasion, did(before they nerfed everything and made them loot pinata..)

They opened the doors of Hardcore league to players that honestly, in my opinion, have no business there and would be better off in Softcore. They have claimed HC as their home and now demand to be rewarded anytime things get risky...

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Clocksimus wrote:

So in short, GGG messed up by not making Nemesis completely screw you over as it's predecessor, Onslaught, and it's successor, Invasion, did(before they nerfed everything and made them loot pinata..)

They opened the doors of Hardcore league to players that honestly, in my opinion, have no business there and would be better off in Softcore. They have claimed HC as their home and now demand to be rewarded anytime things get risky...

Love it! Just love it, friend :)

Dare I propose the next league for HC in line with your way of thought? Called "Bullshit" league. Here's the innovative mechanic, behold: upon killing 100 enemies, you have 10% chance to spawn Toby (codename, subject to change), the Bull. Toby, the Bull, has a degen aura of unresistable damage at fixed 20% of maxlife per second, and moves at extra fast speed. Toby is immune to all damage, or has HP high enough to make no matter, and (surprise!) gives no loot. The aim is to dodge Toby, or he shits you on (literally), hence the name of the league.

The aim of the league is to teach scrubcore players who DARED to "claim HC as their home" [sic] that risk, effort and reward may be arbitrarily disconnected in games! How dare they "demand to be rewarded anytime things get risky" [sic]?! That'll send em back to straight to scrubcore! This is hurrrdcorrr, where fundamental ideas on how to make a satisfying game don't matter!

I know that's ranting and absurd, but listen to yourself.

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Clocksimus wrote:

Someone that gets it.... You sir, and people like you, gives me hope.... that mankind is not yet lost.

"mankind ill needs a savior such a you", bro :D

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elkforce wrote:

The aim of the league is to teach scrubcore players who DARED to "claim HC as their home" [sic]

Okay, two thing:
(1) There is no spelling or grammar error in what you just quoted ("claim HC as their home"). Putting quotation marks around it is sufficient to imply that it is a quote; therefore, putting [sic] directly afterwards implies (yes, I know the original latin doesn't mean this, but you know perfectly well what modern usage is) that you have intentionally left in a technical error with the quoted phrase. By doing so, you have demonstrated that you are an idiot.

(2) I am a scrubcore player, and am happy to be a scrubcore player forever. In recognizing my position, I absolutely agree with what Clocksimus said. There are incredibly whiny bitches complaining about the mechanic much harder than OP is, and they just don't belong in hardcore in the first place.

Mind you, I'm under the impression that even the highest-end players find Beyond's mechanic to be incredibly *tedious*, rather than impossibly difficult, so I think they should still probably change the mechanics to be less irksome for such players, but they absolutely don't need to make it "easier" than it currently is. If it's the same chance of dying while the monsters are still alive, but you only have to kite them like crazy for 20 seconds per pack instead of a few minutes, and making them spawn a bit less often (rather than "make it more predictable/make the portals more visible", something like "you have another 1~2 minutes after finishing off a tier 1 pack or boss before more tier 1 portals spawn") that seems more reasonable. But for sheer difficulty, Chris can tell you exactly how hardcore he wants hardcore mode to be. And his word is law.

Ugh, error caused double post. Sorry.

Here's a repair I don't think anyone has mentioned. Spawn certain ordinary mobs or packs of mobs (or rares) with a 'portal' affix. You kill enough of those in close proximity and the otherworld portal opens. Just an idea to bring some more control to the mechanic.

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HikaruYami wrote:

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elkforce wrote:

The aim of the league is to teach scrubcore players who DARED to "claim HC as their home" [sic]

Okay, two thing:
(1) There is no spelling or grammar error in what you just quoted ("claim HC as their home"). Putting quotation marks around it is sufficient to imply that it is a quote; therefore, putting [sic] directly afterwards implies (yes, I know the original latin doesn't mean this, but you know perfectly well what modern usage is) that you have intentionally left in a technical error with the quoted phrase. By doing so, you have demonstrated that you are an idiot.

Yeah, you're right, I'm the idiot. You wrote "Okay, two thing:". You then edited your post, but your typo remained. Yet you pick on my use of applied modern Latin and on basis of that you call a guy you don't even know an idiot. Clearly I'm dumb and you're the cool guy here. Everyone can see that, no doubt.
I don't suppose you'd be worth the insult.

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HikaruYami wrote:

Mind you, I'm under the impression that even the highest-end players find Beyond's mechanic to be incredibly *tedious*, rather than impossibly difficult, so I think they should still probably change the mechanics to be less irksome for such players, but they absolutely don't need to make it "easier" than it currently is.

Yeah, tedious. Unrewarding. Makes you regret spawning them and makes you wanna dodge them most time. Make it interesting, rewarding. Have I not been saying that? Has my complaint been "oh my I die so much it's impossible?" I ain't died once in Beyond, yet.

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HikaruYami wrote:

But for sheer difficulty, Chris can tell you exactly how hardcore he wants hardcore mode to be. And his word is law.

The follower type, aren't you? OK then, hah. You made me kek softly.

Normally you'd be happy when you find a big pack, but now no.. Seriously fuck this league. I play these temporary leagues because of the new economy and as an excuse to make a new character, not to get irritated by stupid mechanics. This is even worse than when they added a 20% speed (Onslaught) league when they know the game has severe synch problems. What the fuck are they thinking? Are they thinking at all?

Just got to Merciless today, my patience with the beyond enemies is starting to thin. They have absolutely wacko insano HP and their degen in merciless is insane. It's at the point where it's instance reset time if a pack of them spawn with a regen aura.

I support giving them vastly better item drops - act boss style loot for the yellows and Dominus loot for the uniques. GGG will never do it though because it would make the risk/reward of playing the game to be too satisfying.

I firmly believe Beyond is intended as another "screw you" league after Invasion, but if they buff the drops it can be salvaged.

Maximum support.

The solutions to improve it very quickly, not mentioning transforming it, have already been said in "General" forum, and it's so freakin obvious thoughts that you can ask yourself if they did a beta test before.

I am not thinking we are doing the beta test right now, that would be very cynical from me ...

"They have ideas, but ... Well." Déjà vu.

Gentlemen, 1.2.0c today:

We have removed speed and resistance auras from Beyond demons.
We have slightly reduced the chance of Beyond portals spawning in Cruel, Merciless and end-game Maps.

I played quite a lot today and ran some maps, it definitely feels less frustrating now, so it's a small victory for the community :)
I would say in terms of tedium, the amount of time spent on dealing with the spawns is less frustrating now, the rewards remain kinda underwhelming, but eh. The removal of speed is definitely a great step, making the packs much more manageable now.

Barely visible portals still create a huge risk for melee characters I should imagine (I play ranged) and the spike damage on pack spawn is pretty scary.

All in all, I can't say I love the mechanic, but I gotta admit I can't say I hate it too much either. It's just there, kinda.
Question remains how this made it into release, so obviously broken that it had to be patched the following week.