Technical and gameplay feedback thread.
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Ok, time for my feedback that mostly focus on technical aspect of a client, but also include possible solution for optimization and some gameplay mechanics feedback as well.
Dont threat it as a negative post please! I'm really love Your work and promote it everywhere, I just want to give You some fresh ideas and make game better :) You [GGG] have done incredible job with PoE and the best action RPG engine to date! And now let's start :) Technical Feedback: Features and tests: All test were made on C2D E5200 @ 2.5ghz, P5QL, Radeon 4850 [CCC 10.12], 2GB DDR2, windows XP and directx 9c [4.09.0000.0904], full screen res 1280x1024 Both below tests were made in fullscreen mode, with settings like here http://i.imgur.com/qXjmp.jpg but on 1280x1024 resolution. Forest waypoint in combat FPS test: Click CPU utilization (i got i7 graph thanks to IRC PoE community member: Naed) http://i.imgur.com/3FEg7.jpg As we can see, engine is multithreaded, but still need some work on 4 cores utilization, but two cores utilization is perfect. 1. Window mode Its definitely bugged, when i'm choosing any resolution starting with 1280 width i get different outputs, like on those screens: http://i.imgur.com/9qnlF.jpg - this res works properly http://i.imgur.com/qXjmp.jpg - this res works properly http://i.imgur.com/fQnJl.jpg - i set here 1280x720 http://i.imgur.com/i6F9Y.jpg - i set here 1280x960 http://i.imgur.com/3fqWB.jpg - i set here 1280x800 Performance on window mode is also bugged, but it depends of a level i'm playing on. For example on some levels to stop stuttering framerate i need to switch v-sync on, on other ones i need to switch them off. Unfortunately i havent written down on what levels what settings i need to use. 2. Cold snap is much higher performance hog for my system then any other skill i used, its definitely because of fog it generates. For example freezing pulse spammed take up to 3-4 fps, but one cold snap can take up to 10 fps and more Cold Snaps can even down my fps by 20, those were measured from 60-65 fps. 3. Shaders: This scene cut my performance to half in comparison to other rooms in this dungeon, so i lost 40-45 fps from 85-90. http://i.imgur.com/nrMSN.jpg http://i.imgur.com/tSfvs.jpg Optimizations Propositions: ad 1. Dunno whats the cause, maybe this resolution bug, maybe something with v-sync or levels, its up to You to figure this out :P ad 3. Its all about particles, decrease amount of them and decrease resolution ad 4. Its probably, because shaders even if they are covered by other shaders [blood mostly] still are rendered. Graphic options: I know that game is quite well optimized already, but can be optimized even better and quite easily. First of all we need more graphics settings like: - Texture Resolution: Medium/High - Particles Resolution Quality: Low/Medium/High - read paper below please :) - Shaders Quality: Low/Medium/High - Particles Quantity: Lower/Normal - V-sync: 30Hz/60Hz - its quite important - Framerate Limit Box from 30 to 60: its really great option to have, not fluctuating FPS give much fluent experience, locking fps on 40 give better experience than 40-60 fluctuation. - Motion blur, even simple implementation with 30Hz v-sync can give much better experience for low end specs users. - Triple Buffering: [thats need quite more work to done and can increase input lag, but with framerate limiter is quite nice tool] - Post-Process AA [FXAA is the most optimized and its just shader] - i know that You support multisampling AA, but low quality FXAA version should cost 1-2 fps on low end cards and give quite decent results in isometric view. For more info, take a look at http://timothylottes.blogspot.com/2011/07/fxaa-310-released.html And here You can test DX9 dll injection hack without implementing it to Your shader toolset: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=439293 With those sets of options Path of Exile should work that constant 30fps on even lower-end Llano or Sandy Bridge, that will in majority notebooks in 2012. paper: Nvidia made great research, about rendering low-res particles mixed with high-res particles that occludes geometry edges to eliminate aliasing artifacts. Really great way to increase performance of drawing particles without sacrificing quality http://http.developer.nvidia.com/GPUGems3/gpugems3_ch23.html Gameplay feedback: Because we will get 0.9.3 patch soon, i wont focus on balance: Chat: - we need it to be more like IRC, we need tags [like %] to stay after we write something - we need it to automatically end nicknames with TAB like on irc [You write letter 'A' for example and then press TAB to finish it to 'Adam' etc] - pressing ESC should close chat, but remember text we wrote - When You are holding a key to use skill or normal attack and Your enemy on cursor dies, skills/attack deactivate. - There should be an option to prevent equipped gems from leveling - As i said in earlier thread, stash is definitely too small, it needs at least two new tabs [4 new ones would be optimal though], its required for currency items, for skills [they take up a lot of slots], flasks and white items. Most economy and items are oriented around crafting and we need slots to keep valuable items we find for future/current crafting. Hardcore mode especially suffers from it, because we lose many items with chars, especially skills My wished features: - Ability to constant attack with skill or normal attack Your targets, its great feature that decreases amount of clicks, but doesnt take up skill [except for pvp i think, but it shouldnt be a much a problem even there], it also increases importance of attack speed on melee chars, especially if combined with passives that makes normal attack to have arc - More skills for dodging for different classes, now we have two Leap Slam that is ok, and awesome Shield Bash, but both arent useful for classes, we should have Dash or something else for other builds too. - Chance to spawn monsters from other levels on higher difficulties === Additional segment with my wishes :) I know that they wont be possible for a quite some time, because i fully understand that You are small team and You need to focus on more important aspects of the game, but maybe it will inspire You at something or help in future. - Ragdoll Physics, yep it was probably mentioned hundreds of times, but its really nice feature in this kind of game, it gives better feedback and shows how strong skills are. In future You can use Bullet Physics Engine that is open source and quite well optimized: http://bulletphysics.org/wordpress/ - Particles collision physics : its great thing to have sparks bouncing from geometry - More light sources, i know that its more expensive to do in forward rendering engine like Yours, but still it should be capable to do about 20-30 lights per scene and that should be enough for skills and particles. - better HDR implementation: image quality is sometimes blurry, because of current implementation i think. - SSAO: it would help with depth === Some interesting technical papers, Even if they cant help You now, they maybe can in the future [You probably knows them, but i'll post them anyway for other members too] Must read course if You'll ever need to convert or build deferred rendering engine. Its about Post Process AA techniques. http://iryoku.com/aacourse/ Crazy use of voxels in Little Big Planet 2 engine by Media Molecue guys click_me Great course about making more unique textures by clever design click_me Talk about lighting in God of War 3 that uses partially forward rendered and partially deferred rendered system click_me Insomniac paper about their water rendering with FFT http://www.insomniacgames.com/tech/articles/0409/files/water.pdf ========= I'll will update this thread with new posts, instead of updates, its just better way :) Ps. Its a little of mix of gameplay, mechanics, art and technology, so i dont know if it solely fits in this 'forum' :) Ps2. I know that title sucks :P Last edited by KKRT#1655 on Oct 3, 2011, 4:16:03 PM
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" I believe they intend to sell extra tabs in the released game. With free accounts, though, it's not like you couldn't just have alts, so it'd be a purely convenience thing. " That sounds similar to what myself and others have requested, right-click driving. Diablo II and Dungeon Siege have both had features allowing you to fluidly move and attack without having to constantly click the mouse, and they were very important for maneuvering melee characters. Last edited by DragoonWraith#7752 on Oct 3, 2011, 4:49:57 PM
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I agree with making chat more like IRC.
The purpose of argument should not be victory, but progress. Last edited by wickedhood#0007 on Oct 4, 2011, 3:32:00 AM
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" I think this is just due to the fact that the window border does not count towards the resolution. If you maximize the window, you will get the full 1280 pixels horizontally, but still lose some vertical pixels to the window title and taskbar. This isn't really a bug, but a lack of a windowed full screen mode. And as it is such so also as such is it unto you
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" Hmm, You can be 100% right, i havent thought about that. " Yep i know, but 4 tabs is low, i think 6 tabs are low, but i would help in long run. And making alts its not a solution ;p " Diablo still required to have mouse button hold down, but i think Dungeon Siege had more like lock on feature, but i dont really remember ;p Ps. Thanks for answer :) Last edited by KKRT#1655 on Nov 2, 2011, 5:29:37 AM
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I had similar results with a similar system setup.
Pretty extensive technical feedback you have here, KKRT. |
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Just to add slightly, brightness/contrast/gamma settings would be welcome. Ability to change the mouse sensitivity would be nice as well.
I'm not sure if any of those are in the works, I only just got in this a few days ago. | |
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Sorry if this is an old thread I'm bumping, but I'm also one who is hoping for FXAA to be an option. I first got to see this in Skyrim and it does a good job considering how minimal the performance impact is.
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