Some PvP suggestions

Since it didn't get any hits in Suggestion forum, might as well try here:=)

1. Cross-league match-making

There was a good thread that had some excellent suggestions regarding cross-league match-making, but as I'm not able to find it, I will just re-iterate. The big problem with current match-finding system is that it only looks for players in league you are in. This means that finding a PvP match in some less popular leagues can be very difficult, and for 2v2 or 3v3 almost impossible.

I'd suggest to implement a match-finding system that will look for players in all leagues (Standard, HC, Anarcy, Onslaught etc.), effectively expanding the pool of players looking for a match and unify the global pvp scene. There will be an obvious problem of some gear being available in some leagues, and not in others (Kaom vs No Kaom), but this could easily be avoided by implementing additional feature that will check for 'conflicts' between gear of every pvp participant in queue, so if you are wearing a Kaom's Heart, you can't get matched with players from Onslaught.

2. ELO based match-making system

I'm unaware at the current system behind finding the appropriate opponent for you character, but it seems a lot random, based on some matches I had. It will sometimes match you with obviously powerful character, and sometimes with an obvioulsy weaker (both level based and gear based). Judging from my Brood War days, there are a lot of good open source ELO rating systems so I feel it shouldn't be too hard to implement something like this.

ELO based system would allow for a dynamic and challenging pvp, as you would be often paired with the opponent of same 'skill' (based on his ELO points). The ELO would unify both level, gear and skill of the player into one inidicator of character strenght.

3. Challenge based PvP

Automatic match-making is cool, but every now and then you want to pvp an exact person, so adding an option to invite specific player to a duel would be welcomed. These matches would not count in players ELO points.

4. Global PvP ladder

With match-making based on ELO points, it would be only natural to set up a global ladder that will rank the players based on their total accumulated points. This would give pvp scene an added competetive aspect, especially since the ladder would unify all existing leagues. Again, there might be a problem with some players having access to some gear unavailable in some leagues, but as new leagues are temporary, sooner or later all items will end up in the same pool. Until then, match-making that avoids 'gear conflicts' would still give credibility to this ladder.

5. Spectating system

One additional suggestion would be to have a screen that shows top 10 or top 20 duels in progress, based on total ELO points of participating players, and then allow other players to join as spectators. They would have a free-roam camera so they can see what's going on in the match, and also all player indicators for both players (health, buffs, debuffs, ability to inspect gear...).

I feel this would create a nice enviroment where people could see the top pvpers in action and get incentive to join the scene as well. Other than ability to join matches as spectators, you could also implement a system that allows pvpers to invite spectators - this would give new dimension duels as you could call your buddies to watch you destroy some trash-talker that challenged you to a pvp match.

Basically any improvement to pvp system would be nice, as right now it feels like there is actually no pvp in the game.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with most things you suggest, although ALL of these have been brought up several times already.

Two things you brought up cause some problems for me though and although there is no real point in discussing them (because apparantly GGG does either not care or have their own plans anyways), there is also no point in ignoring... either or, it doesn´t matter. So here are my problems:

1. cross-league matchmaking and gear based exclusion (Kaom´s vs no Kaom´s):

While avoiding matching players with league-specific gear sounds reasonable at first, it defeats the idea of cross-league matchmaking. Think about it for a second. While it might work for unique items like Kaom´s Heart, it will cause trouble for base items like Onyx Amulet. What good alternative is there to an Onyx in Hardcore/Standard? I bet that at least 75% of pvp players in standard/hc, regardless if low-lvl or open, are using an Onyx Amulet. If you avoid pairing those 75% with Onslaught/Anarchy players you can as well cancel the whole idea of cross-league matchmaking altogether. Same goes vice versa ofc, as most Anarchy/Onslaught pvp-chars will probably use dualstat-amulets, as those are significantly better than their single-stat/regen alternative. Let alone builds than revolve entirely around league-specific items, like the unique amuletts or rings.

Another thing is, that the players in the classical as well as the new leagues specifically chose those leagues and should therefor, at least in my opinion, have to deal with the up- as well as the downsides of those leagues. And that goes for cross-league pvp as well.

2. ELO points and ELO-based matchmaking:

With this I have one major problem.

How should gear-based ELO work?
Should it depend on specific stats of the gear? Like: if the lvl 28 char has 2 rings with each above 60 life, he will be granted some ELO-points? What if he plays CI and has +69 life on every item? Life and CI has no point, still he would get higher elo-points? Now while this example is clearly exaggerative, my point is, that the ELO-system needs to know about every possible combination of gear/passivebuild/skill-gems and the player´s ability to make use of that potential. Additionally, the system would have to measure all of that not against the possible maximum, but the practically existent chars. Why? Let´s say every player had items that only had 25% of the possible maximum stats. That would grant them rather low ELO-points, although they own the best available gear. This all comes down to the point that as there is no pvp gear, but rng-gear dropped in pve content. So the possible maximum-lvl of gear is determined by the best available items. Pair that with the issue of players rejoining after some time of inactivity, players leaving, items being deleted and so on...

I hope I was able to clarify my problems with your suggestions.

regards

I just realised that I never replied to this post.

Copy/pasting a wall of text I wrote today, albeit under some heavy frustration with the fact some people just whine and whine about everything.

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The simplest ELO system would do just fine. ELO points are awarded based on wins. A win factors in many things:

- gear
- skill
- luck
- whatever

If you start winning, your ELO point rise and you encounter people with similar ELO. This means they too have been winning their matches, be it because of the gear, skill, luck, exploits. If you start losing because you have poor gear, you move down the ELO ladder and start encountering people with similar low ELO, meaning they too have poor gear or are extremely unskilled or very unlucky in their duels.

In ELO system you would't have GEAR vs GEAR, but POINTS vs POINTS. And this one numerical representation of your overall 'power' encompasses your gear, your skill, your luck, your knowledge of the meta game etc and allows you to play against evenly matched opponents.

I mean, this is nothing new guys. I played SC2 quite a lot on ladder, and the ELO (or MMR as Blizzard calls it) allows you to play with people of similar 'strenght' and climb or fall down the ladder. SC2 is similarily unbalanced, the people who play the most will always have better mechanics and build execution. I never could beat people who practiced for hours and hours, but that was fine, I didn't expect to win with my 1-2h casual play per day. You lose a couple of matches, go down the ladder and start playing opponents who are about as good as you are. You then start playing 5-6h every day, practice and practice, and soon enough you are winning in streaks and climbing the ladder.

ELO system in PoE would behave the same, if you have uber gear you will be faced against opponents with uber gear. If you suck, you will fight against the people who suck. As you get better and better gear, or improve your PvP build, you will start winning and accumulating ELO points, which means you will climb the ladder and start facing people of similar strenght.

Great post, you explained it very well and I totally agree.

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The simplest ELO system would do just fine.

You would have to randomize it a bit to avoid fights against the same oponents. This could require some time to tune it well.

agreed with all

I defintely agree that the option should exist. I and many others want to duel across HC and SC. The PvP servers are dead, I cant even pay people to fight me. If cross league pvp existed even for practice it would be wonderful.

I think it should stay friendly and not be rewarded unless it was for just a couple pvp season events. I dont think the competition of cross league pvp should emphasized or become the focal point of pvp because, like many others have said, its just no fair with the gear restrictions as well as probable mass population farming and getting unlikely lucky godly item drops compared to other leagues lacking population to achieve the same statistical possibilities. Shortly put, it needs to be for fun and gentleman's bragging rights.

However reward dependent these cross league instances become THEY ARE EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. I have not doubt its very hard to open these ports between the servers to communicate for such a small reason, but it will add an immense amount of endgame longevity, server pride, and community. The community will strive with the competition. I know GGG wants this shit on twitch, and PEOPLE WILL EAT IT UP.

The game would benefit from a D2 style 'Hostile' option as well. I know they've come out against it but the emergent gameplay possibilities are endless and would be a boon to the community who could come up with creative PvP setups.

Why isn't there Cruel PvP?