Dear GGG: Maybe stop balancing the game so much around trade and just steal Warframe's trade system?

Progression in PoE2 feels like ass if you don't trade since the drops are all balanced around everyone being able to trade everything and items bloating the market etc. etc..

Just steal Warframe's trade system. They have a limited amount of daily trades and there is also a credit/gold tax dependant on the items and currency being traded. That way you could limit trade just enough to stop the game from turning into a damn crypto swapping simulator.

Being able to infinitely trade with friends or with a guild bank if said friend or guild member has been on respective lists for a certain amount of time would also enable friends to trade freely, without being openly exploitable.

Gold cost is pointless as countless MMOs have gold taxes on their auction houses, and they are all infested with automated trading bots. I believe the only reason this hasn't been implemented is because GGG is fully aware that gold cost and taxes are laughably powerless against trader bots operated by RMT vendors who will easily have millions if not billions of gold to throw around.

I propose this:

(1) A fully automated auction house for players to list items and buy. No player-to-player interaction required.

(2) Items that have been bought off the auction house get a label. This label prevents that item to be listed on the auction house ever again.

(3) Regardless of label, all items are still infinitely tradeable via our current trading methods, i.e. face-to-face trades.

This means there is no mass manipulation of the auction house via autmated buy-and-relist bots, since you can't relist something you bought off the auction house.

There would still be a "traditional" market of hand-me-downs for items that have this label.

Although this would mean that item searches must include items from both sources, so people can easily compare prices.

actually ggg solved "botting" in settlers with gold tax. the problem is theres not enough incentive for players to spend gold in poe2 and botters can easily transfer items to botters to sell for gold since "tax is low"

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kumogakure#7381 wrote:

Gold cost is pointless as countless MMOs have gold taxes on their auction houses, and they are all infested with automated trading bots. I believe the only reason this hasn't been implemented is because GGG is fully aware that gold cost and taxes are laughably powerless against trader bots operated by RMT vendors who will easily have millions if not billions of gold to throw around.

I propose this:

(1) A fully automated auction house for players to list items and buy. No player-to-player interaction required.

(2) Items that have been bought off the auction house get a label. This label prevents that item to be listed on the auction house ever again.

(3) Regardless of label, all items are still infinitely tradeable via our current trading methods, i.e. face-to-face trades.

This means there is no mass manipulation of the auction house via autmated buy-and-relist bots, since you can't relist something you bought off the auction house.

There would still be a "traditional" market of hand-me-downs for items that have this label.

Although this would mean that item searches must include items from both sources, so people can easily compare prices.

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And yet again the problem with what you just suggested is that once it has been sold on the auction house it cannot be resold. Which comes full circle back to why you just have face to face trade and leave it at that.

Another major issue with the auction house is what about live search? The best part about it being a trade website is that I can still actively play the game while I can look through trade posts. Couldn't do that if we had a auction house :D

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Hier_Snipe#2347 wrote:

And yet again the problem with what you just suggested is that once it has been sold on the auction house it cannot be resold. Which comes full circle back to why you just have face to face trade and leave it at that.

The proposal is that it can't be relisted on the auction house, but you can still face-to-face trade it infinitely, if you really want to.

The issue with trade at the moment is that there are a lot of people who just don't want to deal with trying to find a seller who's available, running into dozens of sellers who are just using a low price to lure people in, or a buyer who tries to negotiate a non-negotiable price, etc.

For these people, the auction house provides convenience with the downside that you can't relist, aiming to prevent bot trading.

For people who want to keep their item "pristine", they just continue using the current method.

Two systems side by side, while still allowing the website to search both systems and show the search results together to be filtered and sorted easily.

i actually think warframe is about the only game out there with a worse trading system then this game , they also use a website like PoE.

but there its even more popular spamming in trade chat , and the whole trade revolves around a premium currency that you have to pay real money for .

warframe is RMT haven . i got hacked 3 times in warframe , everybody that i know is or have been hacked in warframe .

the only thing that warframe does better then POE is the endgame loop.
PoE will NEVER get there since their vision is different .

Yes there is some RNG in warframe , but nothing like here .
and no punishment .

if you invest 5. 10 minutes or 10 hours . whatever amount of time
you will get something out of it and lose nothing .

You mean p2w trade system where you can buy items for real money? No thanks, we don't need that.

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damir21#1543 wrote:

i actually think warframe is about the only game out there with a worse trading system then this game , they also use a website like PoE.

but there its even more popular spamming in trade chat , and the whole trade revolves around a premium currency that you have to pay real money for .

warframe is RMT haven . i got hacked 3 times in warframe , everybody that i know is or have been hacked in warframe .

the only thing that warframe does better then POE is the endgame loop.
PoE will NEVER get there since their vision is different .

Yes there is some RNG in warframe , but nothing like here .
and no punishment .

if you invest 5. 10 minutes or 10 hours . whatever amount of time
you will get something out of it and lose nothing .

Warframe doesn't even have a endgame.

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DemonikPath#1311 wrote:

You mean p2w trade system where you can buy items for real money? No thanks, we don't need that.

Lol no I didn't say add Premium currency. The OP only mentions the credit/gold tax and daily trade limit.

David Breviks view of trade is that the "perfect" system almost certainly requires a combination of all the available "tools" including binding SOME items to account and some "friction" to the trading even with that.

My feeling is that an organic system is possible where items can have a special "Trade orb" applied to them that puts them into an actual game location that is a market your player has to travel to and "look around" in. this would essentially be a "heavy friction" Auction house, that requires opportunity cost and creates a choice. "I can keep playing and maybe find some stuff or go to the bazaar and shop but maybe not find the thing I want".

The 100% determinism is the big problem with trade. Especially 100% determinism in POE1 where NOTHING ELSE IS REMOTELY AS DETERMINISTIC.

I also strongly feel like a loot based game can not be well designed when it requires trading for reasonable item acquisition, and has drop rates tailored for trade instead of best player experience of the game.

All of the greatest games of all time have loot/items that feel properly balanced for the character progression and experience based on the players play-through of the game and without trading being required. Including Diablo 2.

Good items are rare in D2, but the game is vastly easier with weaker items, than POE1 is with weaker items.

POE1 has perhaps the most amateurish balance of drop rates of any game I've ever played. Embarrassingly bad. Its so "Korean MMO" feeling.

POE1 has never felt like an organic ARPG experience it's always felt like some sort of dishonest "drop dumpsters of fake loot on your head that has almost no chance of ever being worth looking at".

POE1's drop rates feel the same as a casino managers slot machine weightings and intended to trick the same sorts of fools who think they will win if they just ID everything in the dumpster (pump enough tokens into the slot). You wont win, the dumpsters of loot are just their to slow down your orb wage earning so you can go shopping.

IMO this is a damn shame.