What is skill?
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I've been thinking a little philosophically recently about the concept of skill, specifically in the context of ARPG's.
Curious to hear some opinions on this. What does 'skill' actually mean in an ARPG? What I think of when people say skill is someone who has good micro and game knowledge. Positioning, pressing the right buttons at the right time, etc. Consider: A player who can survive an endgame boss by dodging everything perfectly for 30 minutes but can't kill it because their character has crap damage. Is this hypothetical player skillful, a complete noob, or something in between? Last bumped on Jan 11, 2025, 11:10:17 AM
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I think, in its truest and most raw form, in a game like PoE...
Yeah, it's a lot of what you said. Game knowledge, mechanical capability to not make errors, and in my opinion, what tops it all off is efficiency. You might have enough game knowledge to make an unkillable build, and this mitigates your requirement for mechanical capability in most cases. But your efficiency/speed is most likely very low, unless, in theory, ONLY a mega tanky build could clear certain content that made the slow pace worth the reward (which none of these games really have). So then you might make a "blast everything hard and fast before they can blast you" build, which IMO is what PoE accidentally became "balanced" around... But this puts high emphasis on mechanical skill, not making a mistake and dying (which kills your efficiency), but also being able to maximize your "uptime" as well, which means... not only simply not dying, but also killing constantly, effectively, and efficiently. (Which includes lots of things, like mobility for example.) And then, your efficiency is also in looting, as in speed, knowing WHAT to loot, knowing what to vendor quickly, storing things quickly, etc. A lot goes into this definition of skill for ARPG's. But since a lot of it is unfun skill forms, like looting and vendoring... I can't imagine seeking out maximization of ARPG skill. Also to note, there's also more specific goals being set. For example: It can be skillful to know when to reroll a map to something that can be done easier/faster/etc. But ALSO, you could say that it's skillful to be able to clear ALL map mods, no matter how it rolls. Both are skillful, and end up requiring a predetermined GOAL beforehand, which you can then express your skill in achieving that goal. Think of speed running video games, how there's different categories like a full clear speed run, or an anypercent speed run. You have to determine the GOAL first, before being able to analyze the skills in doing so, or else it's an incomputable and incomplete formula. |
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Skill in poe basically boils down to like 80-90% encylopedic knowledge of the game and the rest mechanics.
If you know how to build a character, what you can and cant do with the amount of resources you have (big one for new players), and how to approach situations you can mostly trivialize the game. Little things like saving any res gear you find and using it on act bosses when you are league starting. Jamanrara or whatever with 0 lightning res vs 40% is a completely different fight. Knowing how to do as much dmg with what you have. How to use the trade site, how to set up your atlas etc. |
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" imo this is skill in arpg. but just because you are skilled doesn't mean you are a good player. obviously skill helps a ton with how good of a player you can be, but you need knowledge and experience to 'git gud'. this gets really funky once you realize that keeping cool during high pressure gameplay (pinnacle bosses) affects your 'skill' quite a bit. |
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Look at how Ben (Darkee) plays gauntlets and you will see what is skill.
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In both POE1 and POE2 "skill" strongly depends on precognition of incoming ranged/spell damage before it happens, because both games have a terrible POV and ranged/caster packs are allowed to blast you from Africa.
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" That's a good point about expectations/goals. The skills used for racing aren't necessarily the same skills used if your goal is to simply complete the game. I think there is a lot of overlap though. You could still compare 2 semi disparate things like speedrunning and high level raiding in an mmo or something and make a genuine appraisal. IMO the person who can speedrun elden ring at lvl 1 or win a race in poe is much more skilled than someone who can create the perfect character. I guess I value mechanical inputs over theory-crafting because that's what actually playing the game looks like. Even worse if you just ripoff some meta build and crush the game entirely. For this reason I would say a pro starcraft player is by default more skilled than a pro hearthstone/MTG player, or any arpg player. Not necessarily smarter or better, just more skilled at gaming. Thanks for the response. |
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" Hmm. True, I agree there is a dichotomy between skill and being proficient (good). I disagree that you are actually skilled though if anytime you're feeling pressure you can't perform. I also agree that this hypothetical player is actually quite skilled, despite not knowing how to build a character. |
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" Really? Tilting due to stress/pressure, however induced is pretty well known I think, hell in 1v1 sports its often a tactic to throw off our opponent by playing mind games for that reason. Tyson was well known for that, and I wouldn't say the guys he fought were unskilled. Handling pressure sure is part of the equation but it is completely separate from skill imo. edit: "anytime"- even with this generalization, which is a little strawman, wouldn't matter because it would just mean the persons stress tolerance is extremely low. Last edited by AintCare#6513 on Jan 10, 2025, 10:46:29 PM
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" Oof, yeah I think quite differently. I would argue performance under pressure is one of the most important factors is gauging skill. That moment where it's all on the line and you have to act is the truest moment of skill. If you are not under pressure, than what you are doing is not likely challenging enough to even test your skills. I used to play a lot of competitive fighting games. That's basically a situation where you are always under pressure, and being unable to perform means you will just lose. The line is a lot blurrier when discussing an RPG however, because you could in theory just build a character that trivializes the game (in fact the meta for poe right now) and one could argue that the ability to create a character is more important for success. That's why I thought the other guys comment was insightful. He said you first have to establish the criteria/goals with which you gauge skill. So if your goal is to kill easy stuff fast, then pressure isn't really going to affect you, but if your goal is something like 'beat elden ring no hit' or 'be top 100 in Street Fighter' the person who acts strongly under pressure will always come out on top. |
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