PoE2 Mega Thread - Feedback

First of all, "Path of Exile 2" is already a good game and has many things that I wanted in PoE1 but were never implemented. Even though I think a lot of things are great, I will go into as many points as possible here and yes, it will be a very long wall of text.

I have no idea exactly how many hours I have in PoE2, but probably over 300, so I have tried and seen a lot.
Currently, I have a Pathfinder level 90, Warbinger level 88, Infernalist level 87, Deadeye level 69, Invoker level 66, Sorceress level 44 and several other classes like Mercenary through the campaign (non-cruel), as well as some through Act 1 in Hardcore.
So I basically know how each playstyle/class/type plays out in different content. This brings me to the first point - classes.

1. Classes

1.A - Witch
1.B - Ranger
1.C - Warrior
1.D - Sorceress
1.E - Mercenary
1.F - Monk

A)
Witch - Even though the Witch is probably the most pleasant way to level up to the endgame without much effort on your part, there are a few things that raise questions for me.
In any case, in PoE1, the Ascendancy was exclusively, without exception, an increase in character strength and/or an improvement in a specific thing without a single direct downside. Now, in PoE2, some "Ascendancy Nodes" are literally like "Keystone Passives".

The most obvious example is "Sanguimancy" from the "Blood Mage". In order to be able to use any kind of skill, you pay the costs not only with mana but also with just as much life. The mana costs are not removed, not reduced and the "compensation" (life remnants) are far too situation-dependent to be really positive. This means that "Blood Mages" only start thinking about doing the first Ascendancy Trial for points at level 40 (or only allocate the points much later). It is not helpful that "Sanguimancy" MUST be taken as the first choice.

Even if it's not immediately obvious and not as extremely punishing, "Infernalist" isn't much better.

[Grinning Immolation] You ignite yourself (Become Ignited when you deal a Critical Hit, taking 15% of your Life and Energy Shield as Fire Damage per second).

[Pyromantic Pact] You nuke yourself if you're in a situation where you NEED to cast spells to survive (Take MAXIMUM Life and Energy Shield as Fire Damage when Infernal Flame reaches maximum)
NOTE: Yes, this damage can Ignite you.

[Demonic Possession] You lose 0.5% Life per stack of Demonflame while you gain each second 1 stack.

All of these nodes are "two-pointers", meaning they can be reached from the start. Even if there are other nodes to choose from, this is not about the ones that are OK, it's about choosing early on a downside while being unable to reach deeper into the Ascendancy to "counter" the downsides or get such a big benefit that it barely matters.
The problem is if you are not well-geared on your first ascend (you will not) you will regret taking one of these nodes. The "Hellhound" or "Altered Flesh" are ten times better to start with.

Even though I'm not a game developer, I'll put forward a suggestion as to how I would design the nodes, and yes... no more downsides in Ascendancies - not to that extent.

[Sanguimancy] Skills cost Life instead of Mana. Grant Skill: "Life Remnants".
While I understand that this would have a great synergy with "Mind Over Matter" and probably all would like to take it - I couldn't care less. A Keystone Node being over-powered atm shouldn't affect the design of an entire class negatively and she still has to spend her life to cast - putting herself at risk. If a "Mana Siphoner" deletes her mana and she spent a lot of life... she dead.

[Grinning Immolation] Become Ignited when you deal a Critical Hit, unaffected by Ignite. 30% more Critical Damage Bonus.
The deal with this node is "you need to crit" anyway, so why don't go full-on with the INFERNAList fantasy!? She crits and her excitement turns into a burning passion. Now she could use some cool "self-ignite" related stuff, without the downside other classes would have because... Infernalist.

[Pyromantic Pact] I wouldn't fundamentally change anything about the node, but make it more attractive at the beginning without strengthening it later and simply add: "Your Fire Resistance is doubled". This would at least help to not penalize their gear progression too much in the early stages, but would only give her a "37.5% fire res" bonus (with default res cap) she can switch with something else on gear - basically, she needs a single res mod less on her entire equipment.

[Demonic Possession] Same goes for this node. While the idea is fine, the cap of 10 "Demonflames" would be far better on this node and changing the four-pointer (Mastered Darkness) removes the cap. Call it "Unleashed Hell/Darkness" or something and it fits the class fantasy.


B)
With the Ranger, it's more of a minor thing. To be more precise, "Deadeye" is fine, but "Pathfinder" is a bit strange. So, let's talk about "Pathfinder".
The node "Connected Chemistry" (50% more Flask Charges gained) is nice - in theory, but practically useless. With the spirit gem "Alchemist's Boon" and a 0.17 flask charge per second belt - without a single flask charge-related node on the passive tree - you won't have any issues getting your charges, even on bosses and the use of "Concoction" skills.

I would simply remove this node completely and move "Enduring Elixirs" (Life Flask Effects are not removed when Unreserved Life is Filled
Life Flask Effects do not Queue) to its place. As a four-pointer, I would then create a node like "Charming Wilderness" (Gain the Bonuses of your Charms while your Flasks are active). I know, really powerful, but man... I would love to see it.

The next "offender" is "Relentless Pursuit" (Your speed is unaffected by Slows). This is something I don't really see on that Ascendancy, more an Assassin thing and really weak for a four-pointer.
Instead, I would like to embrace the class fantasy again.
My node idea would be "Known Path" (You are unaffected by Burning, Chilled and Shocked Ground) or even give her small buffs when she is on such a ground (environmental or self-created ground) and she can choose which one she wants out of the three.


C)
Oh boy. I am a HUGE melee enjoyer - that's why I was kinda sad because true melee was dead in PoE1 for a long time.
"Titan" and "Warbringer" themselves are not bad and the nodes are strong enough. The problem is more how they interact with the game.
For example, "Stone Skin" (50% more Armour from Equipped Body Armour) is pretty good for what you get with two points, but since armour is extremely weak in the game itself, it doesn't help you much. It's basically "You die less on a Friday".
The same goes for "Mysterious Lineage" (15% more Maximum Life). Sounds good, but even with a lot of strength and life mods on gear, your effective Hit Pool is a joke compared to a Hit Pool based on Energy Shield and/or Mana. Hell, Strenght could give you 5 Life per 1 point of strength and still would be not even close to the other Hit Pool contenders.

The biggest issue for "Titan" and "Warbringer", excluding gameplay-related problems with skills, is "Armour Break". Why, by the love of Zana, can so many mobs break your armour? You try-hard with your gigachad cosplay build to not only kill enemies - but to survive them - so you "build defences" and they get completely stripped away. That would be like taking away a caster's entire ele resistance and saying "Good luck with the fireball!". Well, this wouldn't be the same because you could still survive as a caster, I know that, I entered yellow maps with negative lightning and cold res on one of my casters, but still.

Make Melee Great, Period.


D)
"Stormweaver" and "Chronomancer" are in a good spot. I'm not a fan of "timed bonuses", which is why I personally don't like "Quicksand Hourglass" (Every 12 seconds, gain 50% more Cast Speed ​​for 4 seconds), but other than that I have no complaints. It would be great if the cast speed node was more of a "ramp" mechanic, which becomes active for a few seconds after "x amount of casts", but still.


E)
Same problems as "Warrior". "Witchhunter" and "Gemling" are well-rounded in themselves, but the gameplay gets in the way, mainly the crossbow.

Even though the crossbow is probably the coolest weapon, it sometimes fails in field use, focusing on grenades. The fact that they bounce off everything is great visually and technically, as well as logically, but it gets in the way of the gameplay. You plan with forward-looking gameplay how and where to shoot your grenades so that they are timed to coincide with the onrushing enemies - only for them to bounce off everything and detonate somewhere else.
Sometimes it feels like the eldritch debuff "Projectiles shoot in random directions".

So, you have limited ammunition - then to reload - aim precisely - wait until they fuse - and still miss.

F)
Monk is... I better don't praise the power too much... is... good.
As "Invoker" you are like a "Scion". You can go full melee or caster, all elemental stuff benefits from your Ascendancy, you can get high Evasion and even really good Physical Damage Reduction and you could even go for a "trigger" build. The only thing I think is a bit off is "Meditate". It's like "Grim Feast" at home, but to be fair - I don't have an idea how to make it good without turning it into "Grim Feast".

"Acolyte of Chayula" will be insane (don't nerf pls) when all other weapon types are in the game to really use its full potential. Atm OK.


2. Endgame Progression of the Atlas

2.A - Tower
2.B - "League" Mechanics
2.C - Portals
2.D - Navigation

Fundamentally, I love the new mapping system. It's much more engaging to have a large world map to explore, but there are some things I would like to be different.

A)
The fact that a "waypoint" is no longer blocked if you don't successfully complete the map is fine. I would prefer the old, even harder system, but most people probably see that as too punishing. Still, some things are a bit strange. In 99% of cases, you go into a "tower" with a low-tier waystone, run quickly through, activate the tower and get out. This will probably sound harder than I mean it to, but either activating a tower should be harder - with a small boss at the end, for example - or it shouldn't require me to go in there at all, because at the moment it feels like a complete waste of time.

The use of "tablets" is also not really satisfying. You prepare several towers, which can take a lot of time, then use tablets, only for the "buffs/mechanics/mods/whatever" to be distributed completely uselessly.

To counteract this, I would like to see two "Atlas Passive Tree Nodes". One is "Knowledge of the Realm" (Tablets are more likely to add mechanics to waypoints that have mechanics on them) and "Embrace the Unknown" (Tablets are more likely to add mechanics to waypoints without a modifier present).
This would give you the choice between "I want to juice fewer waypoints, but heavily" or "I want more waypoints with mechanics, but not as cranked up". These nodes should ignore "Contains a boss" for balance purposes when they select waypoints; the boss itself should be the reason why you want to run this map, any juice is a bonus. EDIT: With "ignoring" doesn't mean that tablet mechanics won't spawn on the waypoint/node - but rather that it applies the tablet to a node without factoring in "Contains a Boss". So it doesn't matter if a boss is there located - what you choose as "Atlas Tree Node" has higher priority.

B)
I will later discuss some of the problems with monsters/enemies that are also present in these mechanics, but for now, let's focus on the mechanics themselves.

[Breach] Shards start dropping pretty late (red tier maps) and the amount isn't great either. Of course, you could distribute points in the "Atlas Tree" (Breach) to get more of them, but you would first need a "Breachstone" to kill the boss. So, to get what you need - you need to kill a thing, but to kill the thing - you need the thing you don't get - as much as needed.

[Ritual] The same. For at least decent rewards you need the invitation, but you won't be able to find or defer the key - unless you've already got some points in the tree.
On top, in most rituals, it feels like there is no space at all to fight in. Terrain and hostile mechanics from the ritual itself narrow the "space" down most of the time to 1/3 or even 1/4 of the entire circle. That's pretty hard to manage, even for ppl who enjoy really challenging stuff. You need to dodge explode on the ground, while a purple fart cloud or a tornado is blocking your way, WHILE a ton of enemies rush you and so on. It overloaded.

[Expedition] Again. It's all backwards how you progress the tree and get points for the mechanic, while Expedition is the best state. Just run area lvl 79+, get the logbooks (they are common), find the boss - kill. So not as bad as the other ones.

[Delirium] The shard problem becomes the splinter one. While the fog is sometimes buggy, it's not that bad. A bigger issue is how the monsters spawn in (from the crystals) and that the rewards are outside of "Simulacrum" not worth the time at all - if the splinters didn't exist. While "Breach" operates on a similar gameplay mechanic - kill stuff to get a key - you get rewards on top for killing monsters, besides the "league" related things like "Breach Rings".

Even though these points are a little less powerful in Tier 16+ maps, since you can farm better there, this brings with it another problem - progress in all "non-T15/16" waystones feels very unrewarding. So all the "fun" is funnelled into the top.

C)
This will get a bit controversial. Personally, I prefer the "1 death" (try) style of play, but of course, I've noticed that many people see it differently.

Leaving "Waystones" (maps) aside, the endgame boss fights should stay as they are. Of course, they can say "It takes so long to find a citadel and with one attempt - how are you supposed to do it?", but bosses in citadels are the act bosses. If you haven't fully mastered their mechanics, you can practice them in the campaign as often and as long as you like before attempting this T15+ version. Also, it's not so much a problem that we only have one attempt, but that it takes a very long time to even find a citadel unless you're lucky.

The other end-game bosses are tied to keys/fragments and are meant as THE challenge of the end game. They are the bossification of "High Risk - High Reward". Should you change the "portal philosophy" - at least leave the pinnacle stuff untouched.

D)
This is a UI-related thing, but as important as everything else. It becomes really hard to navigate on the "Atlas" if you run a few hundred nodes and expanded a lot. Some sort of "marker placement" would be great, so I can make notes and a... well... map for the map (atlas). Like, for example, in HoMM3 the world you are playing in would be our "Atlas" but we got a smaller - scaled-down version on the top right where we see where we are in comparison to everything. Should I run some nodes in the south but want to do something in the northwest I could click on that region and get there without the need to drag me over the entire atlas.


3. Mechanical Stuff

3.A - Minions
3.B - Stun
3.C - Pushback
3.D - Leap Slam
3.E - Movement Speed

A)
Minions, in terms of power, are in an acceptable state, but they have a major problem - missing "Convocation" (Recalls all minions that are following you to your location, and grants them a temporary life regeneration effect).
While I would remove the "life regen" from this skill for PoE2 - being able to call my minions to my location is highly needed. In most map layouts the minions block each other a lot, like A LOT. You often end up in a room without your minions being stuck and have to figure out how not to get clapped by the enemies in the room you are stuck with. "Convocation" would even benefit the skill-based gameplay. If I recall them at the right moment and choose a good position - I can save them and if not - they die. Then it would actually feel like I have control over units instead of praying to the KI god that the encounter has no doors or spam AoE attacks.

B)
Stun is dangerous for all classes, but the ranged ones have melee on their side. But to improve the gameplay and avoid huge issues dealing with enemies as a melee character I would suggest giving them another way to build defence against it.
While charms are okayish, you will get stunned at least once until they trigger and you are only able to act in a small window (buff duration).
To counter this problem to that extent, Dex-based melee weapons should get a built-in "Stun Avoidance" based on the character's Evasion and Str-based melee weapons should get a built-in "Stun Threshold" based on the character's Armour. So it depends on which weapon they use and what defence they mainly rely on and can scale it the more they invest in it.

C)
It's probably not intended, but a lot of enemies are able to push the character to Narnia. And not only the charging/rolling/whatever types. Even normal-sized enemies can push you by "running aggressively" into you. They even can push the character model so fast and far that the camera loses focus and is not centring you anymore.

D)
This is about "Leap Slam" from enemies. Personally, I think there are too many enemies who use a "Leap Slam"-like ability. Only to name a few, there are the big "Vultures" where you get damaged even if you dodge-roll out of their distance (could be a bug), all "Monkeys" above normal size and even "Faridun Swordsman" (from Dreadnought). If you don't have a build that can clear beyond your screen - you are screwed. Often if they appear on the screen they instantly launch onto you and if you survive the first one - you won't the next. The issue with these attacks is not entirely the slam, but kinda.

The big "Vultures" are unable to fly and clumsy on the ground, letting them "fly" with a slam in your face doesn't make much sense. Instead, don't let them and give them another ability like "gain 10% more maximum Life for each creature dying in their presence up to a maximum of 100%". Like, dead stuff is good for them, it's their thing, but we wouldn't end up with "Soul Eater" levels of unfairness.

The "Monkeys" are ok, jumping is pretty natural for them and the beefed version should be able to get you with it.

For the "Faridun Swordsman", I think the slam isn't the problem itself, but the timing. If they would throw their sword onto our position (spear would be cooler and more fitting) and then with a short delay make a "hero landing" in our face if we don't dodge sounds fine to me.

E)
While I would like the base movement speed of the character raised to 10%, it's about the enemies again. Way too many enemies have "PoE1 movement speed". That means, even if I am cautious, react fast, and so on - if I don't have a build to clear them asap on distance (like melee combat) I will have a really bad time. It's often not possible to "kite" them and it's likely for them to circle the character. It's like I would play PoE1 with 15% ms boots, but without flasks and movement skills, while the defences are not as strong in comparison.


4. Currency

How much currency drops and what kind of currency and all that stuff is just a "numbers game" to adjust if needed, but what I really dislike, from the bottom of my heart, is "increased Rarity" as a mod on items.
If you play a build based on HP - you want life on your gear, if you are a build based on ES - you want energy shield on your gear, and so on.
But then there is the stat "x% increased rarity of items found". This is for whom? For people who want to find items? So... everybody?
My issue, if you don't use "rarity" (how it is atm in PoE2) while farming - you put yourself at a huge disadvantage.

The bigger problem, is if your build - you enjoy playing - suffers a lot from dropping mods to make room for rarity you end up in a weird situation. And yes, you could argue "You don't need 500%, just get a smaller amount like 100% and you are fine". Why tho? Why are the rewards I get tied to a mod on my gear, instead of the content determining what I am able to get. Rarity should only be a modifier on things like "waystones/monsters/mechanics" while the difficulty increases - not a stat I slap on my gear.


5. In Addition

I could make this thread way longer, but I start to get hungry and this should be enough for now, but only one thing at the end - the music. Don't get me wrong, I love "Kamil Orman-Janowski's" work, he is such a gem, but especially with the huge areas taking some time to clear - music is often "missing". Not in terms of "there is no music made for this area/zone/whatever", instead, the music "queue" seems not to match. So you end up without the great soundtrack pretty often. I mean, sure, I could listen to my "Kamil Playlist" like always, but it would be great if it's more pushed in the front by the game itself.

That said, enjoy the rest of your holidays and stay sane, exiles.

Too many downsides and upsides aren't even that good to begin with is my main criticism of levelling in this game.

I’d add Mana Siphon to your list of mechanics. It’s just game breaking if you’re a caster and run into a mana siphon elite. You’re just dead. Almost instantly.

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Orrion300#4027 wrote:

I’d add Mana Siphon to your list of mechanics. It’s just game breaking if you’re a caster and run into a mana siphon elite. You’re just dead. Almost instantly.

Depends. I wouldn't mind if they would get nerfed, but removing them is probably a bit much. Not because "fuck casters", instead, the trick is to go into the circle - the outer circle is the real problem that drains your dry.

But I admit, they can be really rippy depending on the situation you are in when they are coming, that would send me to the "movement speed of enemies" problem again.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

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Orrion300#4027 wrote:

I’d add Mana Siphon to your list of mechanics. It’s just game breaking if you’re a caster and run into a mana siphon elite. You’re just dead. Almost instantly.

Depends. I wouldn't mind if they would get nerfed, but removing them is probably a bit much. Not because "fuck casters", instead, the trick is to go into the circle - the outer circle is the real problem that drains your dry.

But I admit, they can be really rippy depending on the situation you are in when they are coming, that would send me to the "movement speed of enemies" problem again.

the ting is, every choice of class or playstyle should have a disadvantage. not just mana siphon.

"play around the disadvantages of your build" needs disadvantages for your build.

if every build has a disadvantage, it's balanced (if they go down this road).

as soon as there is a build without any disadvantages the whole system goes down the drain.