Discussion of basic design of POE1/2. roguelike, soullike, poelike. How ggg improve poe2?

First, a few points needed to be addressed. Poe2 isn't soullike， in 0.1d,e update， obviously ggg hope that poe2 go to poelike direction.

Now, different build and characters are extremely imbalance， some contents are too difficult or too easy， the growth rate in so skill and mf are unfairly high.

But in here, I am not talking about balance, ggg will balance it after all.

At first, I want to separate balancing and base design in bottom logic in poe2 game design.

Also, last than half Years was spent for the end game, that is why so many defects in the game design now.


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A few points should listen


Diablo-like would call - poelike

Soullike， roguelike would call- intensive like(its_like)

MF - magic find

ir = item rarity / iq = item quantity


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The difference in design and reality
Poelike or its_like??

When EA was just released, I misunderstood that poe2 is soullike (its_like), and poelike and its_like had fundamental contradiction, but In fact, it is more like a priority issue; what does this mean?

Firstly, what are the core values in poe1? Diversity, complexity, freedom.

But in its like, the core would be self-challenging. There is no action in many roguelike games. In fact, Poe2 is more like a roguelike because they have a randomization system in both.

There is the priority that I am talking about

Before ea, many people used soullike to comment poe2. In these 3weeks, that is very clear: POE2 is not.

You still can run, farm, and one_bottle all the way through the game in POE2. Particularly after 0.1d,e update. ggg didn't turn the game more challenging but more poelike.

That is why I said I had misunderstood the intention of GGG's "action" RPG

But why do we need to compare these?

Its_like is a solo game, and POE is a multiplayer game. There is much corroboration and trading between players. That cause unfair or very difficult to balance in boss fight. Because bossing isn't the main part of the game. However, in POE2, bossing is essential, and action is important.

Many players said that act1-3 bossing is difficult, but that's too easy in the end game. This is a typical example of difficulty in balancing the its_like and poelike.

Also, remember, these is only 0.1 ea, these will be many seasons in the future every 3-4 months. GGG needs to do these difficult balancing every season! How can GGG do this well? And also keep the complexity and diversity!?

In other words， if GGG is forced on the balance of bossing, then they will overlook the balance in different builds and items. So of the build will much stronger than the other. Also, more bud will happen because ggg spent too much attention on the bossing. We all know that GGG is not Unisoft that having many resources. (and all those big companies are still bad at this)

But in personal view, I can see that try to simplify the system in the calculation to make it more easy to change in the future. I was hoping ggg can do it before ea. But now, I am really suspicion that can gg manage it.

Diversity, complexity, freedom.

In its_like, the item is fixed or can be changed in small range. But in poelike, item are hugely diversed. This provides much freedom for players, which means the diversity of items is a part of the poelike core.

The "action" is essential in poe2, but many operation spaces are limited. For example, movement speed, act1-3, evenpne are forced to play soullike, because the action speed of the monster is remain the sample, but the player is much slower than end game.

Same operation problem is happened on the block and the shield, the blocking system is the same as poe1, so, that's no further operation space for player. Many people said the only "action" that more than poe1 is roll. They said that is not enough "action" compare with soullike, but also not enough diversity with poelike.

And I feel the same.


Or else, MF problem.

This is a good example to elaborate the intrinsic contradiction.

MF exists to get better items in a shorter time. In its_like, the randomness of item is very low, most of them item is easy to get. It is not like the high-end item in poe2/poe1, like hh or MB.

Because the item is a sample part of its_like. But in poelike, item diversity and randomization is the core.

extension with MF
in the present formula, the currency drop is calculated with the player-ir, which also had multiple effects and increased the importance of player-ir. Making the unbalanced economic system even more.


So mf is needed for poelike.

good item drop rate
A question should be asked first. which is more important? the player experience or
Some said ggg wants players to “feel” better in the good item-dropped. And yes, we may have better items from the normal random drop. But, what is the sacafated? The poor crafting experience. Defected currency system. Unfair MF system.
And if GGG wants players to “feel” better in the good item-dropped. Why are there so many (95%) useless unique items or in a very low-level-based unqi? Would anyone feel happy if there were one more unique drop on the ground? This is the contradiction of good item drop and “feel” better in the good item-dropped
how to improve, 90% lest unique drop and enhance all the useless unique toy.


now, with the discussion of MF, ir, and item drop. we can talk about the based philosophy

How to make players feel better on item drop?

the difficulty of content vs difficulty of item drop.

same in the contradictions in its-like vs poelike

think about the first time kill the Act1 boss, it is hard, happy, but a very bad drop. Do players feel good? Yes, we do. Because that is the first time. In POElike, these bosses will kill 1000 times when we are farming. So, the randomization of item drops makes it a bad experience for those who have a bad drop. Or you farm 1000 times, making it feel like nothing, just like a statistics game as poe1. That also why you would see a fixed drop in its_like.

Or just want player farm
now the game is like act1-3 = its_like
end game = POElike

Maybe this is the intention of the first design of POE2? I do not know. But if you say its_like in end game, why are temporalis and HH present? All these types of items, build, and designs obviously POElike 100%, not its-like.



But one thing is also important.

Fairness and Justice

True fairness and fair player feel are different. Just like random mode in mp3 player, that is not random.


So, what is Poe's goal? true fair or Artificial fair?


in poe, random and fair is highly linked. the mf system is true random, that why so player can feel better cause they have div, mirror ever season, that is find. what is the other? why most of the people feel better in 3.25? Because the whole market is affected by many things, just like the economy.


in 3.25, "settlers of kalguur" play a strong part in the stability for the market. That increases the bottom line for the randomness in the market!! which mean the randomness is reduced in the whole system.
This make player feel better even ggg may not like it.

i am not saying ggg should put 3.25 in poe2, but some certain of the bottom line would be helpful for the poe2 economy.


Also, MF problem. I think it is not just MF itself. Many things in poe2,
the growth rate in the growth curve is too rapid.

Except for the unfair curve rate. It also affects currency drop. That causes the multiple affect to the item drop by IR, which is double or triple from poe1.

i don't know why ggg design like this, the rapid rating must make the early game and the late game become a completely different.

There were many bugs and buds that happened in Poe1 all these year. this unfair MF design should not happen in poe2 like this.

And ggg make it happen

Making a same mistake many, many, many times, and still learning nothing.

This is disappointing.

Someone asked, "Are these important?" If the balance is not good, most people's experiences will be poor or even unfair. In this way, fewer people will play Poe2 in the long run. I hope that Poe2, like Poe1, can become fair (relatively), free, and diverse.

And it works just as much fun for 10 years like poe1


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Economy
Before we go to the mf discussion, we should talk about the base economy. Because ggg seems don't understand it.

Crafting

poe1 doesn't have a crafting bench at first. It even more difficult to craft than now in POE2, I guess there is too much work, so GGG keep the bench later and try the base craft now.

In ggg expectations, they hope we can craft with enough currency.

But ggg is Misunderstanding why most of the players don't craft

what affects player crafting or trading?

Cost-effectiveness， economy， market price!


What Is Market Price?

The market price is the current price at which a product or service can be bought or sold. The market price of a product or service is determined by the forces of supply and demand. The price at which quantity supplied equals quantity demanded is the market price.

Pricing

When there is an information gap between people， a small group of people can craft higher efficiency and earn the difference， another player can spend less currency and get a better quality item from buying the item from the other because they don't have to try and error and waste there money and time.

For example， most people don't farm because it's too difficult for us to farm, but farmers know a lot about farming. They produce items more efficiently, and middlemen and stores collect them to sell to us, so we don't have to spend too much effort on trading food and items.

Another example is that GGG workers do not pay with oil, flour, or water. Do you make your own clothes? So why do we have to craft our own items?

This is the market; this is the economy!

Most of the players just want to kill some monster farm some map, fight the boss

Only a few people like to spend hundreds of hours crafting in their hideouts.

Also, most of the players do not have the knowledge to craft as well (even I played for 10 years)

So at first, ggg wants everyone to craft. That is a mistake!



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For the market

On the other hand, the balance of the market is unclear, so ggg may try to find the market's anchor point. Since everything is unstable, the fluctuations is normal. This is why craft is a higher priority.

Old poe player should know that the price of ex and div was reversed three years ago because of the change of the bench price, which is the best proof of the price anchor would change, according to economics, the market will eventually find the most appropriate balance. So the current price is not important because it will be changed with many updates coming up.

Also, if the fluctuation is too large, it will be awful for the player experience, not only EA, the previous agricultural waterway, the current mf problem, and then every time the ggg update will significantly affect the market, so the crafting bench can stable the market.

Except for the fluctuation, the rape inflation rate, and the high Economic Inequality caused by the unfair MF rate. It would have 2 consequences.

1: most of the players would leave - 95% of players can not farm faster than the inflation. They can not get enough items for their end game when they have few hours per day to play, and the top market is controlled by the 5% of players.

2: top 5% player - same as prisoner’s dilemma. An unfair rate of MF causes everyone to remain in the game needed to run for MF, or else they would left behind.

Not just the MF problem but the whole econ system would affect the player's experience.


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Finally, my personal thoughts
Talking all of this. Not just hoping to scold ggg, but to understand ggg’s design and ideas, as well as its limitations and problems, so that we can know how to improve it.

Again, this is EA now. I can forgive all the imbalance in the early game and end game. However, the design flaws showing ggg did not plan the game well before ea. Not having enough time is an excuse. But ggg still makes many mistakes. All these mistakes need to be improved by the underlying logic, just like the modification of automatic spellcasting (I don’t that ggg changed well)

Obviously, the growth curve of many things rises too fast, making the effect of stacking a single value become too strong, such as skill level, MF.

Obviously, it is a design problem.

The map and the atlas passive are rushed products and do not have complete logic and design. Many people have also talked about this issue. I believe that, in the future maps will be redesigned.

Since so many things needed to be resigned, I think the game can be restarted in February.

BUT! The design needs to be done more carefully!

In addition, the punishment for boss battles is one of what I have said is the focus of the contradiction. There is no limit to the number of times its_like challenging the boss, and it will not punish you for dozens of ex. but this restriction on failure is necessary in poelike, but not intensive_like. It’s troublesome (not impossible) to balance the points.

For balance, my suggestion is that everyone increases their movement speed by 15%, and shoes provide 5, 10, and 15%, so that players have more space to "action", but it will not allow them to complete the content too quickly.

Similar methods can be used for other balances. Nowadays, the playing experience is generally poor. In many cases, there is a huge gap between the upper and lower limits of the build. Of course, OP like Titan need nerf, but more importantly, it raises the lower limits of others. Also, like Vine Arrow, the reason for this kind of bud is the unreasonable growth curve. In addition to lowering the growth rate, the baseline should also be raised, without changing the upper limit, but making the experience of act1-6 better.

For example, Let Me Solo Her is not forced not to wear equipment, but he chooses not to. Good games and good poelike should provide more choices instead of restricting us.

In addition, because the passive point is increased by 20% and the ability value is reduced by half. so the freedom is reduced (adding 20 more resistance points to all resistance already allows everyone to increase the degree of freedom), so I suggest adding 10 more points, but some people say that it is possible in the future There will be second Ascendancy ...so i wont know

Same as above, mf should not increase exponentially like skills, the growth rate should decrease after ir150-200, reaching a plateau around 250-300

At the same time, MF equipment should reduce movement speed 10-20% for every item.

But the simple way is to cut it in half or delete it.

In addition, the runes are not well designed. Different combinations should be added like d2, or they can be crafted.

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Atlas

Many youtubers have said that low-end players (including me) don’t want to try and make mistakes because the cost is too high for the end game boss.

My suggestion is

Ascendancy 2 and 3, changed to the same as Sublimation 1, no cost, you can keep trying, as green mission items

Similarly, the 1st and 2nd passives of breach, ritual, delirium, and expedition are changed to obtain and finish the content for the first time, while the 3rd and 4th talents are green quest items(can keep trying). For example, give the cracked stone to Dognani and exchanging it as "Weakening the Crack Stone" can be tried repeatedly. The boss drop will not change, but after completion, Dognani will return the Crack Stone.

The reason for the design is to give everyone a try to beat the king as first. They will not want to try because the tickets are too expensive. The 3 and 4 points of talent also guarantee that everyone will do so. This will not waste the time of top players, because the drops will not change. But it doesn’t affect the market price very much because each person only has one time.

Same as above, many things were not changed before Christmas.

Many of these problems are needed to redesign and modify the formulas. Unlike Vine Arrow, which changed the values only.

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more background information to ggg

Maps, bosses and items are too expensive, which is an economic problem. 2 weeks ago, Lost City farm destroyed the ex div balance, to mf problems, and boss passive is unfair to newcomers, causing inflation and wealth inequality in the economic market.

In the past, poe1 used quarterly updates every 3-4 months to make the final balance. With Settlers in 3.25, everyone can easily make their first pot of gold. However, in the extremely unbalanced EA, there is no way to solve this problem. The damage that has already occurred cannot be undone.

The design and production of the end game only took less than half a year, but this is no excuse to evade responsibility.

Also for ggg’s Economic 101

Many veterans say that Poe is an investment game, and they are all right.

supply and demand

When supply and demand are unbalanced, prices will naturally rise because there are many people who want to buy, but there are few goods for sale. For example, half of the people are playing Archmage equipment. Archmage’s core equipment is naturally very expensive, especially because the output is very small. ring

In the same way, the Lost City farm 2 weeks ago caused the output of ex to increase significantly, so the price of ex plummeted after those few days.

(Because farming the same location repeatedly is most suitable for bots, not players)

economic information gap

Another problem with stock trading is when very few people know a single piece of information, and this information can make money (such as how to make an item at a low price, or knowing the Lost City farm a few days ago). People who know this information can make money in a shorter time. more money than you

This is why novices are worse at making money than veterans, because we know the essential design of Poe, but you know nothing

Similarly, it is generally recommended that you buy items for old players, because old players also have many unclear crafting details. Only those who have studied crafting for many years will understand the lowest cost method of making different equipment. This cost of learning takes a lot of time, but Ordinary people just want to farm (it’s not like they’re studying for a Ph.D., right?)

But we still need to understand the economy

!!!ggg obviously misunderstands the positioning of crafting and currency in the market!!!

This causes you to have obviously wrong expectations in design.

First, a few points needed to be addressed. Poe2 isn't soullike， in 0.1d,e update， obviously ggg hope that poe2 go to poelike direction.

Now, different build and characters are extremely imbalance， some contents are too difficult or too easy， the growth rate in so skill and mf are unfairly high.

But in here, I am not talking about balance, ggg will balance it after all.

At first, I want to separate balancing and base design in bottom logic in poe2 game design.

Also, last than half Years was spent for the end game, that is why so many defects in the game design no.w

--------Segmentation----------------Segmentation---------

A few points should listen

Diablo-like would call - poelike

Soullike， roguelike would call- intensive like(its_like)

MF - magic find

ir = item rarity / iq = item quantity

--------Segmentation----------------Segmentation---------tion---------

The difference in design and reality
Poelike or its_like??

When EA was just released, I misunderstood that poe2 is soullike (its_like), and poelike and its_like had fundamental contradiction, but In fact, it is more like a priority issue; what does this mean?

Firstly, what are the core values in poe1? Diversity, complexity, freedom.

But in its like, the core would be self-challenging. There is no action in many roguelike games. In fact, Poe2 is more like a roguelike because they have a randomization system in both.

There is the priority that I am talking about

Before ea, many people used soullike to comment poe2. In these 3weeks, that is very clear: POE2 is not.

You still can run, farm, and one_bottle all the way through the game in POE2. Particularly after 0.1d,e update. ggg didn't turn the game more challenging but more poelike.

That is why I said I had misunderstood the intention of GGG's "action" RPG

But why do we need to compare these?

Its_like is a solo game, and POE is a multiplayer game. There is much corroboration and trading between players. That cause unfair or very difficult to balance in boss fight. Because bossing isn't the main part of the game. However, in POE2, bossing is essential, and action is important.

Many players said that act1-3 bossing is difficult, but that's too easy in the end game. This is a typical example of difficulty in balancing the its_like and poelike.

Also, remember, these is only 0.1 ea, these will be many seasons in the future every 3-4 months. GGG needs to do these difficult balancing every season! How can GGG do this well? And also keep the complexity and diversity!?

In other words， if GGG is forced on the balance of bossing, then they will overlook the balance in different builds and items. So of the build will much stronger than the other. Also, more bud will happen because ggg spent too much attention on the bossing. We all know that GGG is not Unisoft that having many resources. (and all those big companies are still bad at this)

But in personal view, I can see that try to simplify the system in the calculation to make it more easy to change in the future. I was hoping ggg can do it before ea. But now, I am really suspicion that can gg manage it.

Diversity, complexity, freedom.

In its_like, the item is fixed or can be changed in small range. But in poelike, item are hugely diversed. This provides much freedom for players, which means the diversity of items is a part of the poelike core.

The "action" is essential in poe2, but many operation spaces are limited. For example, movement speed, act1-3, evenpne are forced to play soullike, because the action speed of the monster is remain the sample, but the player is much slower than end game.

Same operation problem is happened on the block and the shield, the blocking system is the same as poe1, so, that's no further operation space for player. Many people said the only "action" that more than poe1 is roll. They said that is not enough "action" compare with soullike, but also not enough diversity with poelike.

And I feel the same.

Or else, MF problem.

This is a good example to elaborate the intrinsic contradiction.

MF exists to get better items in a shorter time. In its_like, the randomness of item is very low, most of them item is easy to get. It is not like the high-end item in poe2/poe1, like hh or MB.

Because the item is a sample part of its_like. But in poelike, item diversity and randomization is the core.

So mf is needed for poelike.

But one thing is also important.

Fairness and Justice

We will talk about this in the next part.

Someone asked, "Are these important?" If the balance is not good, most people's experiences will be poor or even unfair. In this way, fewer people will play Poe2 in the long run. I hope that Poe2, like Poe1, can become fair (relatively), free, and diverse.

And it works just as much fun for 10 years like poe1

--------Segmentation----------------Segmentation---------

Economy
Before we go to the mf discussion, we should talk about the base economy. Because ggg seems don't understand it.

Crafting

poe1 doesn't have a crafting bench at first. It even more difficult to craft than now in POE2, I guess there is too much work, so GGG keep the bench later and try the base craft now.

In ggg expectations, they hope we can craft with enough currency.

But ggg is Misunderstanding why most of the players don't craft

what affects player crafting or trading?

Cost-effectiveness， economy， market price!

What Is Market Price?

The market price is the current price at which a product or service can be bought or sold. The market price of a product or service is determined by the forces of supply and demand. The price at which quantity supplied equals quantity demanded is the market price.

Pricing

When there is an information gap between people， a small group of people can craft higher efficiency and earn the difference， another player can spend less currency and get a better quality item from buying the item from the other because they don't have to try and error and waste there money and time.

For example， most people don't farm because it's too difficult for us to farm, but farmers know a lot about farming. They produce items more efficiently, and middlemen and stores collect them to sell to us, so we don't have to spend too much effort on trading food and items.

Another example is that GGG workers do not pay with oil, flour, or water. Do you make your own clothes? So why do we have to craft our own items?

This is the market; this is the economy!

Most of the players just want to kill some monster farm some map, fight the boss

Only a few people like to spend hundreds of hours crafting in their hideouts.

Also, most of the players do not have the knowledge to craft as well (even I played for 10 years)

So at first, ggg wants everyone to craft. That is a mistake!

wants

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For the market

On the other hand, the balance of the market is unclear, so ggg may try to find the market's anchor point. Since everything is unstable, the fluctuations is normal. This is why craft is a higher priority.

Old poe player should know that the price of ex and div was reversed three years ago because of the change of the bench price, which is the best proof of the price anchor would change, according to economics, the market will eventually find the most appropriate balance. So the current price is not important because it will be changed with many updates coming up.

Also, if the fluctuation is too large, it will be awful for the player experience, not only EA, the previous agricultural waterway, the current mf problem, and then every time the ggg update will significantly affect the market, so the crafting bench can stable the market.

Except for the fluctuation, the rape inflation rate, and the high Economic Inequality caused by the unfair MF rate. It would have 2 consequences.

1: most of the players would leave - 95% of players can not farm faster than the inflation. They can not get enough items for their end game when they have few hours per day to play, and the top market is controlled by the 5% of players.

2: top 5% player - same as prisoner’s dilemma. An unfair rate of MF causes everyone to remain in the game needed to run for MF, or else they would left behind.

Not just the MF problem but the whole econ system would affect the player's experience.

--------Segmentation----------------Segmentation---------

Finally, my personal thoughts
Talking all of this. Not just hoping to scold ggg, but to understand ggg’s design and ideas, as well as its limitations and problems, so that we can know how to improve it.

Again, this is EA now. I can forgive all the imbalance in the early game and end game. However, the design flaws showing ggg did not plan the game well before ea. Not having enough time is an excuse. But ggg still makes many mistakes. All these mistakes need to be improved by the underlying logic, just like the modification of automatic spellcasting (I don’t that ggg changed well)

Obviously, the growth curve of many things rises too fast, making the effect of stacking a single value become too strong, such as skill level, MF.

Obviously, it is a design problem.

The map and the atlas passive are rushed products and do not have complete logic and design. Many people have also talked about this issue. I believe that, in the future maps will be redesigned.

Since so many things needed to be resigned, I think the game can be restarted in February.

BUT! The design needs to be done more carefully!

In addition, the punishment for boss battles is one of what I have said is the focus of the contradiction. There is no limit to the number of times its_like challenging the boss, and it will not punish you for dozens of ex. but this restriction on failure is necessary in poelike, but not intensive_like. It’s troublesome (not impossible) to balance the points.

For balance, my suggestion is that everyone increases their movement speed by 15%, and shoes provide 5, 10, and 15%, so that players have more space to "action", but it will not allow them to complete the content too quickly.

Similar methods can be used for other balances. Nowadays, the playing experience is generally poor. In many cases, there is a huge gap between the upper and lower limits of the build. Of course, OP like Titan need nerf, but more importantly, it raises the lower limits of others. Also, like Vine Arrow, the reason for this kind of bud is the unreasonable growth curve. In addition to lowering the growth rate, the baseline should also be raised, without changing the upper limit, but making the experience of act1-6 better.

For example, Let Me Solo Her is not forced not to wear equipment, but he chooses not to. Good games and good poelike should provide more choices instead of restricting us.

In addition, because the passive point is increased by 20% and the ability value is reduced by half. so the freedom is reduced (adding 20 more resistance points to all resistance already allows everyone to increase the degree of freedom), so I suggest adding 10 more points, but some people say that it is possible in the future There will be second Ascendancy ...so i wont know

Same as above, mf should not increase exponentially like skills, the growth rate should decrease after ir150-200, reaching a plateau around 250-300

At the same time, MF equipment should reduce movement speed 10-20% for every item.

But the simple way is to cut it in half or delete it.

In addition, the runes are not well designed. Different combinations should be added like d2, or they can be crafted.

--------Segmentation----------------Segmentation---------

Atlas

Many youtubers have said that low-end players (including me) don’t want to try and make mistakes because the cost is too high for the end game boss.

My suggestion is

Ascendancy 2 and 3, changed to the same as Sublimation 1, no cost, you can keep trying, as green mission items

Similarly, the 1st and 2nd passives of breach, ritual, delirium, and expedition are changed to obtain and finish the content for the first time, while the 3rd and 4th talents are green quest items(can keep trying). For example, give the cracked stone to Dognani and exchanging it as "Weakening the Crack Stone" can be tried repeatedly. The boss drop will not change, but after completion, Dognani will return the Crack Stone.

The reason for the design is to give everyone a try to beat the king as first. They will not want to try because the tickets are too expensive. The 3 and 4 points of talent also guarantee that everyone will do so. This will not waste the time of top players, because the drops will not change. But it doesn’t affect the market price very much because each person only has one time.

Same as above, many things were not changed before Christmas.

Many of these problems are needed to redesign and modify the formulas. Unlike Vine Arrow, which changed the values only.

--------Segmentation----------------Segmentation---------

more background information to ggg

Maps, bosses and items are too expensive, which is an economic problem. 2 weeks ago, Lost City farm destroyed the ex div balance, to mf problems, and boss passive is unfair to newcomers, causing inflation and wealth inequality in the economic market.

In the past, poe1 used quarterly updates every 3-4 months to make the final balance. With Settlers in 3.25, everyone can easily make their first pot of gold. However, in the extremely unbalanced EA, there is no way to solve this problem. The damage that has already occurred cannot be undone.

The design and production of the end game only took less than half a year, but this is no excuse to evade responsibility.

Also for ggg’s Economic 101

Many veterans say that Poe is an investment game, and they are all right.

supply and demand

When supply and demand are unbalanced, prices will naturally rise because there are many people who want to buy, but there are few goods for sale. For example, half of the people are playing Archmage equipment. Archmage’s core equipment is naturally very expensive, especially because the output is very small. ring

In the same way, the Lost City farm 2 weeks ago caused the output of ex to increase significantly, so the price of ex plummeted after those few days.

(Because farming the same location repeatedly is most suitable for bots, not players)

economic information gap

Another problem with stock trading is when very few people know a single piece of information, and this information can make money (such as how to make an item at a low price, or knowing the Lost City farm a few days ago). People who know this information can make money in a shorter time. more money than you

This is why novices are worse at making money than veterans, because we know the essential design of Poe, but you know nothing

Similarly, it is generally recommended that you buy items for old players, because old players also have many unclear crafting details. Only those who have studied crafting for many years will understand the lowest cost method of making different equipment. This cost of learning takes a lot of time, but Ordinary people just want to farm (it’s not like they’re studying for a Ph.D., right?)

But we still need to understand the economy

!!!ggg obviously misunderstands the positioning of crafting and currency in the market!!!

This causes you to have obviously wrong expectations in design.



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"20250103"

With a discussion with friends, I felt things may not be clear enough.

1: yes, ggg said soullike this word before EA( I don’t know)

2: soullike is a solo game, low player interaction, easier for boss fights as a group, and most importantly, no trading market, very low freedom on build, and low effort on balance.

3: roguelike has more randomness like Poe, on map, boss, and item.




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at the last

Many things ggg should change, fix, redesign.
this is EA, I am fine.(but many people feel different)

But one thing is the most impotent.
What GGG wanted? I can not what ggg relly want, in experience in poe2.

What is the quintessence of poelike for you, GGG?[/spoiler]

Answer this question and continue for the next 10 years. I hope I will still play the best work for you.

an updated version at:

Discussion of the basic design of POE1/2.(GPT version for easy read + point form) Direction should GO?
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3685913

ps: some item drop rate also updated.

20250108 by LPAlien