TRADE is such a detriment to POE 2 being fun

I hate knowing that I got a decent item that I can't use.

I COULD turn that decent item into power if I engage in trade, but I have to stop having fun and open some boring trade window where i might or might not get an item to get that power spike.

My progression turns linear, I'm no longer finding cool random elements in the battlefield and going with the flow and creating unique builds. I'm just following a cookie cutter build, getting cookie cutter resists, buying items with the cookie cutter mods.

The magic is gone.

Many of us just don't like having to haggle, we don't like engaging with others, we just want to play the game and not have to think, "There are players becoming FAR stronger than I am, because they are sitting in trade all day and trying to rip off other people".

The animosity of wondering if you're getting ripped off. The fear you might be ripping someone else off. The clunky interfaces for trade. It REALLY kills the experience and has a tremendous downside to how the game is balanced.

How much effort is added to all these systems and how much are drop rates restricted to ensure the global economy can work?

Games that have public trading for the best items in the game without common NO DROP for the best items always end up being a charade. The most powerful players invariably end up being those who trade over even playing the game.

Systems and balance always end up being shifted and made less because they need to be tuned and altered in so many unseen ways to cater to the trading community.

It's just such a downer to know that trade exists and that your biggest power sink isn't your skill, it's not time investment, it's that other players are becoming far stronger because they happen to be online at the right time when someone happens to be selling a certain item for the right price.

It's so inherently unfun and just destroys the whole damn experience.

Should a player be able to give their friend some cool sword? Sure. Maybe we could limit 1 item traded per week or something across accounts.

But trade by its very nature just sucks the fun out of games like this in ways most people aren't even aware of. So many elements of the game end up altered from dev time, to unique bugs, to design considerations and resources that could be going into making actually playing the game better, but instead players are given the freedom to ruin their experience by getting items that aren't properly tuned for their current place in the game.

Given the option most people would ask for all the money in the world at birth, and all the priviledge and they'd grow up to be whiney, worthless, and ungrateful. And this is a bit similar to how trade runes what could have been such a well crafted game where people could enjoy their hard work without fear of missing out or having their experience made more difficult by those who engage in a far more trivial and boring aspect of trade.

There is no need for this system? Why does it exist? Why do we allow the balance of games to be ruined so a small subset of players can rip others off and amass power? Real life is already unfair enough! This is a game, the rules are meant to create balanced play that's FUN, not dreary currency systems leading to linear and pre planned power gain!

You might argue, but what if you don't have this or that item! People need to trade to compete! Then change the loot drop percentages to favor items of your class! EASY!

Trade is another trope that we've allowed to fester that makes games less fun to play in so many ways that most aren't even aware of. It's extra systems and design and code that all draws from the core game and diminishes the reward of having fun slaying monsters.

It plays into profit margins and helps GGG sell stash tabs, but it's such an unfortunate system that makes games like this inherently less fun for the majority of players whether they know it or not. Could we pay 50 bucks for a mod that removes trade but gives us loot drop benefits in other ways to make up for it?

Nothing kills the longterm health of a game than one that has trade and new players feel poor and worthless with not just a base game to learn, but some trade system on top of it so they can get items not in a fun way, but by haggling with a throng of power players who have YEARS of currency accumulated that makes new players feel like a poor sub class.

There aren't fantastical item scaling in POE yet as it's early access, but this WILL creep into POE 2 unless trade is revised, or a new mode is added for those who don't want to have to engage with this boring, linear, predictable system that sucks all the fun out of the game.

play SSF. its very rewarding

OP, are you for real !?

1- You can play SSF
2- Trade has been in POE 1 for years, or take EVE Online as different example. The economy is an integral part of the game (if you want it to be, see 1).

There is literally a mode built into the game for people like you.

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RKxZlcLUUF#5704 wrote:

play SSF. its very rewarding

I don't like the idea of playing in a way that is inherently negative. You don't get a reward for not accepting trades from others, you're simply nerfing your ability to progress.

And this is the problem, the game is tuned and oriented around trade, and trade for the majority of players is unfun. And a great many players who think they enjoy light trade have no idea how far reaching the mechanics have on a multiplayer game like Path of Exile.

It inherently breaks balance, it inherently makes the game harder to sustain fairness and fun play because mistakes in balance become more permanent and tuning loot systems have far less room for experimentation and finding optimal rates.

The whole of the game becomes worse so a few people who get off on ripping others off for power, or who enjoy haggling and trading up get to play some sub game of economy.

I don't log into an action RPG to stare at a trade tab and wait for someone else to find an item I might use. It ABSOLUTELY kills the fun of the game. Why even play? Why not just sit there and stare at trade all day long and haggle? It's by far the best way to progress in power.

It absolutely diminishes the core loop, and takes the joy out of finding items and playing an action game.

The math inherently favors trade. Most good items you will find will not fit your build. So unless you trade, you will be at a HUGE disadvantage when it comes to power.

It's not that I don't know how to trade, it's not that I don't know how to quantify an items value. It's that I don't want to have to haggle, or stare at spreadsheets, or leave the fighting area just to play the darned game.

I just want to find loot. And I want to find the loot that I found, that has cool randomized mods, and I want to theory craft builds for those mods, and not feel as though I'm gimped because other people are just trading for the perfect items that breaks all the magic.

I would agree that - just dont trade dummy - is not really a valid response to this
Last Epoch can have a system that gives you options to target farm better if you resign from trade im sure POE2 could have something similar as well.
I would honestly gladly play SSF if i at least got some more crafting currency to have a chance at similar levels of gear progress as in normal league.

Because of frequent checkpoint system and boss checkpoint system in campaign I think you can have a good time without trade. Better time even, as leaving the game to engage in trade really breaks immersion. Feels like 'cheating'.

For later trials/higher maps tiers, without trade it is far too punishing, you need better items because at that point it is simply a POB game of pumping a combination of DPS+EHP to keep up with monster HP/dmg numbers.

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yanos224#5987 wrote:

I would agree that - just dont trade dummy - is not really a valid response to this
Last Epoch can have a system that gives you options to target farm better if you resign from trade im sure POE2 could have something similar as well.
I would honestly gladly play SSF if i at least got some more crafting currency to have a chance at similar levels of gear progress as in normal league.

It's a VERY complex topic, because trade absolutely fuels people buying more stash tabs and other revenue streams. But the fact is, it absolutely does kill the fun of grinding for the majority of players. It's like in real life when you're busting your ass making minimum wage and you just know someone else out there is in some cush office job goofing around making more money.

Games should be about having fun and enjoying the fruits of your kills! Not about stressing about the loot you're missing out on from not engaging in some boring ass trade system.

A lot of people will learn about trade, they will see other people engaging in it, and they will stop playing the game when they see other people who enjoy this tired exercise are becoming FAR more powerful because they don't mind haggling and engaging in trade to get those key upgrades.

People play games TO GET AWAY FROM PEOPLE. To play in a world with rules, and mechanics that are fair and promote playing a game while enjoying the rewards of your accomplishments.

It is so much less fulfilling to see some item in a chat window, dealing with the UI, completing the transaction, and using some item someone else found.

I know that this is a key element of the design of POE 1. That's why I'm making this post. The game would be so much more fun if it offered positives to not trading, if it encouraged players to be able to play on their own and kill monsters and not feel as if they are gimped for not engaging with trade systems that are so inherently unfun to so many people in so many ways.

I just want to kill monsters and get good loot without having to feel people sitting in a trade window are ruining the balance of the game.

If PoE2 had a system in place that lets me increase and manipulate drop rates in order to compensate for not being able to trade, I would play that. Something like Last Epoch has.

Preferably that still allows for trade within your guild, assuming they are also playing that mode.

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eeeeechuta#7800 wrote:

Because of frequent checkpoint system and boss checkpoint system in campaign I think you can have a good time without trade. Better time even, as leaving the game to engage in trade really breaks immersion. Feels like 'cheating'.

For later trials/higher maps tiers, without trade it is far too punishing, you need better items because at that point it is simply a POB game of pumping a combination of DPS+EHP to keep up with monster HP/dmg numbers.

If a game requires trade, it's broken. It's inherently unfun and will alienate a huge swath of players who want to play the game and not sit in a trade window.

There is potential for far bigger profits from a larger audience, than relying on nickel and diming the small group of die hards who obsess over trade.