On Dodge Roll and how to improve the flavour.

I really like the update to dodge roll in terms of feel. It is a competent button for getting out of bad situations but outside of that it is better to walk. Very well tuned after the update.

However, I want to address a fundamental design space that the dodge roll occupies and what I feel is a missed opportunity for class differentiation which would feed nicely into the new skill gem and skill tree systems.


Let's add a little spice.

Background:
Dodge roll is the GGG solution to the absolute requirement in ARPGs for mobility skills in order for boss and enemy encounter design to be interesting and reactive. Without mobility to avoid telegraphed attacks, encounters have too many design constraints put on them. In PoE1 we saw this solved by every single character using at least 1 or 2 of the few viable movement skills in their build sometimes linked to utility like curse application. Instead of taking up skill slots, GGG decided that since mobility is mandatory and standardizing mobility helps them design boss encounters, that all mobility would be wrapped up into the dodge roll. In many ways this is a mechanical success but in terms of player agency and 'flavour' of character customization it is a step backwards.

Proposal:
Dodge roll should be changed into an innate stat/class based skill that can be supported. They would travel the same iframe, distance, and time as the current dodge roll but each would have a unique animation and flavour utility which can be modified. The following would be my suggestions for each stat/class:

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Str (marauder/warrior):
Shoulder check: The warrior/marauder barges in the direction shoulder first, knocking back and weakly building up stun in a small cone on contacting an enemy.

Str/dex (Mercenary/Duelist):
Focused Evasion: The mercenary/duelist spins while moving, avoiding attacks while reloading the currently selected ammo or empowering the next melee attack with increased attack speed. Note that for reload times longer than the dodge roll time the reload will have to continue until completed when the roll is finished so for long reloads you have a movement penalty right after the roll.

Dex (Ranger/Huntress):
Acrobatic Reprisal: The Ranger/Huntress preforms an acrobatic aerial flip which counts as a 'free' meta gem. It builds up energy per use and can trigger linked projectile attacks when energy is full. Energy is based on projectile attack speed, subject to balance.

Dex/Int (Shadow/Monk):
Dodge Roll: The Shadow/Monk retains the basic dodge roll but it now grants evasion after rolling for 2 seconds.

Int (Witch/Sorceress):
Repulse: The witch/sorceress creates a small shockwave at their position which knocks back enemies and pushes the witch/sorceress away while she levitates and spins.

Int/Str (Druid/Templar):
Fend: The Druid/Templar preforms a spinning move which knocks back enemies in a shockwave at the end of the movement.

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Each of these are innate skills for the classes and cannot be traded removed or swapped. They can be supported and gain support slots at level thresholds like weapon skills.

Now for the juicy part:
Customization through ascendancies and class specific starting nodes in the skill tree.


Since you already have the custom starting locations for each subclass, you can easily 'hide' class specific dodge roll customization within the skill tree. For example: The sorceress could transform her repulse into an elemental ailment building shockwave and the witch could turn hers into a wither, curse or debuff shockwave. The possibilities for class specific customization options in the tree fits really well within the current skill tree design.

In addition, you can have ascendancies which modify the class dodge roll in meaningful ways. For example: The Dex Acrobatic Reprisal skill could be modified by a huntress ascendancy to accept melee strike skills instead of only projectile attack skills, changing the way it is used and opening up unique build options. This skill also changes the design space of certain skills like escape shot in that I would like to see more 'build a skill' options for ranged mobility.

For the monk/shadow, Shadows would be able to customize it to drop a smoke grenade/poison cloud (assassin) or to act as a meta gem like the dex version but for traps (Saboteur). The monk could maybe get a modification where rolling adds to combo.

By re-introducing the kinds of customization that PoE is known for into what I would say is a successful test of the mechanical feel of the current dodge roll, I think we could open up a very enriching design space. It also gives the player significantly more options to make dodge rolling a meaningful part of their combo rotations instead of a purely reactionary ability.

It also gives more 'class dignity' to the base mobility skill as it doesn't make much sense for a jewelry covered sorceress to be rolling in the mud to avoid attacks, or for an armour plated warrior for that matter. Rolling always struck me as a rogue/dex flavoured movement style.


Please give me your thoughts or feedback on this vision of 'class specific' customizable dodge rolls.


One obvious place where this could be a problem is for shapeshifting. If each form that is accessible to all classes has to be animated for each dodge roll type that would add too much work. The solution then would be to have shapeshifted dodge rolling be 'shape' locked so each shape only has one dodge roll animation each, no matter the class.

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REALLY cool suggestion imo. Though it is a ton of work, I'd prefer specific rolls for each class, not ones shared by a stat combo, and I'd also caution against ones that specifically only work with a ranged/melee weapon because then using a staff on those characters would be penalized, but other than that I think the concept of dodging being a real mechanic like that would revive the flavor of having a movement skill while fixing the problems poe1 movement skills caused and had.

The people asking for poe1 style move skills to return aren't thinking about what it does to encounter design. They are grasping for nostalgia instead of working within our new paradigm. something like your suggestion here ACTUALLY plays within the design the devs have already made. Bravo!!

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REALLY cool suggestion imo. Though it is a ton of work, I'd prefer specific rolls for each class, not ones shared by a stat combo, and I'd also caution against ones that specifically only work with a ranged/melee weapon because then using a staff on those characters would be penalized, but other than that I think the concept of dodging being a real mechanic like that would revive the flavor of having a movement skill while fixing the problems poe1 movement skills caused and had.

The people asking for poe1 style move skills to return aren't thinking about what it does to encounter design. They are grasping for nostalgia instead of working within our new paradigm. something like your suggestion here ACTUALLY plays within the design the devs have already made. Bravo!!

Thank you :)

Yes the ranged only meta gem for dex characters limits use but that is why I suggested ways of modifying them. The huntress example being that it allows you to use strike skills from melee weapons. Same with the Str/Dex contextual reload or melee atkspeed bonus. I want to make them open to weird builds but clearly supporting the class/stat theme.

I think by reducing it to the stat combos it reduces the animation team work required (the biggest cost probably) and then giving each class specific ways of modifying it will be the best solution.

Interesting idea. Good post, OP. I think it's a lot of work, and maybe out of scope given how much other stuff GGG are still building for the game, but it does all sound pretty cool.

Could be interesting.

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Honestly there should be a sweet of movement gems that slot into the dodge roll like the blink. Grim Dawn does this well with a basic evade on a 3s cooldown and handful of other movement skills categories you can get like blinks, charges, or leaps backward. We don't need class specific rolls because that undermines the design of poe, but having a specialized slot for the roll would be nice

Or at the least change the movement to anything but a roll... dodge rolling looks stupid and a little dash would be far more fitting

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