Skill (Gem) System Kind Of Sucks

3 disclaimers:
* I understand this is not PoE1 and I don't want PoE2 to become PoE1
* I understand this is early access
* I understand that a lot more skills are going to be added along with new classes

With that said, the skill system feels limiting and disembodied, floating as an abstract menu beyond the fourth wall floating around following the player instead of being properly integrated into the game.

The whole skill system feels very arbitrary at the moment - the limit of sockets at early levels, the types of skill gems you can and can't use based on your equipment, the support gems... it feels clunky and convoluted, not to mention limiting.

For example, if you want to play a non-bow Ranger your options are spells or Crossbow. Wands no long have attacks, but rather grant a spell that you can't make into a gem at low levels. You can't dual wield wands, or scepters. If you want to run a poison Sniper minion with a poison bow build, get wrecked because they reserve spirit and spirit is as rare as an honest politician.

There are elements of the skill system that work, but as it stands now every character type feels like it's on rails and ends up like every other character of its type.

I think re-working the spirit system to be better integrated for all characters is a good start.

Maybe returning sockets to gear, auto-linked with a fixed number based on item level and with restrictions for skills gems based on item type (though if you want to use a 2H hammer to cast spells you should be able to).

I don't want a return to the PoE1 system, but the current one feels really bad and I think that is causing most of the issues that people are struggling with (difficulty, drops, lack of customization etc.)

People will disagree of course, but to me the skill system seems the weakest part of PoE2, not the difficulty, drops or currency.

Sockets in gear sounds like a bad step backwards - this choice should be final.

But I agree strongly that the system restricts build options.
For one the strong connection of skills to weapons.
There should be skills that are connected to more than one weapon (i.e. can be used with bow or crossbow) and those that can be used by a group of weapons (i.e. all bashing/ all slashing/ all piercing) and those that don't need weapon (i.e. traps, granades, other cast/ produced things, including those currently used by weapons).

If that doesn't bring the variety enough, make the higher level gems available faster/ earlier. So you don't spend 20+ hours leveling until you can use them.

"You cannot have multiple copies of the same support gem socketed at the same time."

I don't really see how this promotes player choice in build-crafting. It feels like the kind of decision developers make when they don't want to balance the value/cost increases of support gems between the gems themselves and instead decide to force the player to choose where the ONE 'overpowered' gem goes.

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Bakubylozajete#1182 wrote:

Sockets in gear sounds like a bad step backwards - this choice should be final.

But I agree strongly that the system restricts build options.
For one the strong connection of skills to weapons.
There should be skills that are connected to more than one weapon (i.e. can be used with bow or crossbow) and those that can be used by a group of weapons (i.e. all bashing/ all slashing/ all piercing) and those that don't need weapon (i.e. traps, granades, other cast/ produced things, including those currently used by weapons).

If that doesn't bring the variety enough, make the higher level gems available faster/ earlier. So you don't spend 20+ hours leveling until you can use them.

I like the idea of skills tied to weapon types instead of single weapons. Wands have been gutted, and they were one of my favorite weapon types.

Skill gem sockets as they are implemented now make no sense. They aren't tied to anything and are just arbitrary slots hanging out in the aether and not actually tied to any item the character wears. Or any other part of the character for that matter.

I just think putting the sockets back onto the items, removing socket color and making the sockets linked by default would be better for such a fundamental core system in an ARPG than the current menu nonsense.

Unless anyone can think of a better system, I think it would be different enough from PoE1 and still perform the exact same function as it does now in PoE2. Obviously you would move runes to a crafting mod like an exalt but specific to runes so that's a non-issue.

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CaptinSupreem#4089 wrote:

3 disclaimers:
* I understand this is not PoE1 and I don't want PoE2 to become PoE1
* I understand this is early access
* I understand that a lot more skills are going to be added along with new classes

With that said, the skill system feels limiting and disembodied, floating as an abstract menu beyond the fourth wall floating around following the player instead of being properly integrated into the game.

The whole skill system feels very arbitrary at the moment - the limit of sockets at early levels, the types of skill gems you can and can't use based on your equipment, the support gems... it feels clunky and convoluted, not to mention limiting.

People will disagree of course, but to me the skill system seems the weakest part of PoE2, not the difficulty, drops or currency.

100% agree! The limitations they implemented into the system is a huge step backwards in terms of what made poe 1 great. Let the players make decisions. If i want to use "Spell Echo" on "Arc" LET ME! Why limit some "Heralds" to attack skills only? Why TF would you ever limit this? As long as you have positive and negative effects in the gems, balance that instead. DO NOT REMOVE OR LIMIT PLAYER DECISION MAKING. Who made these suggestions, and how did they get approved and implemented!? You just created "Path of kindergarten".

Honestly the only thing that is an upgrade is the engine. Looks great, feels great. But it came at a great cost.

All the fantastic system mechanics have been reduced and dummed down by 70%. Cratfing, support gems, passives variation and masteries and general build diversity and possibilities.

I think what made POE1 a great game is that ARPG players don't give a shit about fancy graphics, they care about deep and engaging character progression and development. You just nerfed the fu*k out of you own greatest achievement from POE1.

I understand what yall are talking about. I do not want the linked sockets again from POE1. For like the ranger what other weapon do you want? Let me guess blades? That will come with the Shadow class. Which may or may not be able to be used on a ranger. They maybe it sound like that in the interview saying there were all these combos and they don't know all the different types. But it feels too restricted for that to be the case at the moment. However, if any class can do anything then what is the point of a class?

"

TiG3rJaX#5952 wrote:

I understand what yall are talking about. I do not want the linked sockets again from POE1. For like the ranger what other weapon do you want? Let me guess blades? That will come with the Shadow class. Which may or may not be able to be used on a ranger. They maybe it sound like that in the interview saying there were all these combos and they don't know all the different types. But it feels too restricted for that to be the case at the moment. However, if any class can do anything then what is the point of a class?

Wands are currently in the game and not being added later. I want to use wands on my Ranger, but a wand "attack" is a spell base type. Wands in PoE1 were their own base type. And you can't dual wield them in PoE2.

But that's not the main issue. If you want to synergize with another class's skills, you can't because skills are tied to weapons. If I want to run minions on a bow build I should be able to. Good luck getting enough spirit by wielding a bow instead of a scepter, let alone reaching any minion nodes from the ranger starting area.

Is that making more sense now?

-- Edit --
But yeah I can see why people don't want to go back to sockets on items. There has to be a middle ground somewhere though. The current skill system is - I'm sorry to say it - trash.

oof. i REEAAAALLY hope they don't listen to this! xD :/

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ReggShanks#0071 wrote:

"You cannot have multiple copies of the same support gem socketed at the same time."

I don't really see how this promotes player choice in build-crafting. It feels like the kind of decision developers make when they don't want to balance the value/cost increases of support gems between the gems themselves and instead decide to force the player to choose where the ONE 'overpowered' gem goes.

You could see it like that. But in reality wouldn´t you choose everytime the same strongest supports for every same damage type of skill because it deals the most damage?

Kinda makes you think bit more about choices for skills, I actually like that. Doe everyone have their own opinion in the end.

i would not say what skill game system sucks but it's certainly have some concerns.

1. While early access technically allow us to use impressive amount of skills, many of them actually can only be used in certain scenario and in conjunction with certain other skills. For example Lightning rod have zero worth by itself it's only purpose is to be used with lightning arrow to trigger secondary burst's. Lightning arrow by itself also does not provide good DPS without usage of lightning rod. And where is not much other usage for this skill. It's basically feels like artificially added second button for lightning arrow build. I know what POE2 designed around skill combos, but current design for some skills are actually really restrictive in use.
2. Skill restriction to weapon types is not bad by itself when it is done in moderation, but restricting ALL skills to one weapon type is definitely bad. It will restrict usage of weapon uniques with interesting effects only to skills with corresponding weapon time, just imagine if we have "Voidforge" but cannot use it with some melee skills just because they are made for axes. Additionally skill restriction will make harder to use some damage archetypes with different weapons, for example if GG will make skill with interesting mechanic it will be available only with one weapon type.

What is really concerning me the now is what i don't have feeling which i had while i planned my character in POE 1. When i planned my character in POE 1 i always had feeling what i have endless possibilities. But i feel much more restricted to certain build while I’m playing POE2.
I understand what it is only Early access, but i hoped what they manage to recreate such feeling.