Limiting support gems to only one skill nearly forces one button gameplay
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Seriously, certain skills benefit extremely well from specific gems, but I'm forced to use those gems on only one of those skills. This pressures me into one button gameplay instead of switching skills based on the situation. Take the 25% attack speed gem... this is essentially +25% DPS for a lot of skills, so any skill that doesn't have it is automatically less viable to use no matter the situation. I've been trying to play Mercenary and simply put some skills just aren't worth bothering with. The Armor Piercing Bolts have a lot less DPS than the regular attack, and would benefit a great deal from that extra attack speed... but I end up doing FAR more damage just normal attacking rather than even attempting to use the skill, because the normal attack also benefits from that and benefits more. Want to switch between the shotgun skill that freezes enemies and the shotgun skill that consumes freeze to deal a lot more damage? You get to pick which one you give the gem that gives an extra shot per reload to, which massively improves the DPS of the skill... again, discouraging comboing them into each other. This system encourages just loading all the best gems on one, maybe two skills and never touching other skills. Skills with a good combo together often want the same gems, making them awkward and a lot worse than they should be. And when players do find good combos it looks like they'd rather nerf those than showcase them... see gas clouds and fire walls. That's the sort of thing that should be allowed, not punished. Overall I think the limiting of support gems to one skill, even if you have more than one of that gem, is bad for the game and gameplay. It limits viability of skills and pressures people into one or two button gameplay, with two button only viable if you have a second skill that doesn't benefit much from the same gems as the first skill. There are definitely other issues... dodge roll being blocked by enemies, every movement skill having fixed attack speed added to force them to be as slow as just moving normally, the slow movement in general... but this one specifically bugs me. Last bumped on Dec 14, 2024, 7:21:39 PM
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Actually, thinking further on it... maybe not have a gem that feels mandatory for all the attack skills? Because it's a bit of a no win situation, whatever skill you have it on is going to be a lot better DPS wise, so you feel like if you use other skills you're punished by having lower DPS. But then it becomes mandatory for all the skills it makes better if you let it be freely used.
The actual solution is probably to just... not have something like that, where tons of skills are just 25% more DPS if they have it. Because it's a choice between having only one skill worth using at any given time or having certain support gems that are mandatory on everything, taking up gem slots. Maybe keep support gems to things like altering the skill's effect somehow or allowing it to proc other things rather than being a straight DPS increase. Taht way gems don't feel mandatory, so you aren't pressured to just use one skill or to have the same gem on almost all skills. |
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I've been quite enjoying the buildcrafting puzzle of figuring out meaningful supports for multiple skills. Simply because one support is 'obvious' for many skills doesn't mean the skills without it aren't useful.
I'm running a Pathfinder Grenadier; grenades all want Scattershot (Multiple projectiles). They all want Magnified Effect (Inc. AoE). Most of them want Primal Power (EDwA). there's a bunch of 'obvious' ways to improve them, but each obvious support gem can only be used once. Does that mean the build is garbage and unplayable? Not at all. It means looking for non-obvious solutions to the problem. One of my favorite recent innovations is using Executioner on Explosive Grenade - 40% MOAR attack damage against low life monsters is one of those mods PoE1 vets scoff at, but in PoE2? Bosses are at their most dangerous during the bottom third of their health bars, and you're often getting close to being out of resources then. That's when Bigger Damaj counts the most, and throwing out bunches of heavily boosted grenades has noticeably improved killspeed in this phase in my play so far. Take advantage of each skill's unique properties, rather than trying to just cram each skill into the same role of General DPS. That's PoE1 thinking, and it will get you killed in PoE2. Just because a support gem is restricted to a single skill doesn't mean the other skills are useless. If you've got six skills all doing the same job and looking for the same gem? Diversify! Find ways around the problem! Can't put Double Barrel on both Permafrost Bolts and Fragmentation Rounds? There's a skill tree cluster that grants 70% increased reload speed for crossbows, and a support gem later that provides a similarly huge bonus. Get those nodes, put the reload speed on Permafrost. That's the skill you have to spam until the freeze buildup procs; rapid reload is a better fit for Permafrost than Double Barrel is, while the quick double-tap from Double barrel helps Frag Rounds deal heavy spikes of damage. Permafrost with Glaciation, Frozen Nexus, and (Reload Speed) is a good control skill; pair Frag Rounds with Double Barrel, Ice Bite, and Cold Infusion or similar for damage, instead. Creativity is rewarded in this game, vastly more so than PoE1. She/Her
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" I get your point, but I cannot agree fully, as it is maybe viable by a Mercenary, but renders ... heavily cripples the ie. Summoner,... Why should be players not being able to use ie. Persistence on a minion skill gem and on a Spell, or any other non-minion skill gems. and it goes on and on. this is not build/skill gem diversity, it's creates the exact oppossite. Restricts what we can use, and just as the OP said, we are FORCED to put some "other" support gem into a socket, not because it is so good, but because it is all we are left with. I get the concept idea of GGG, but it is extremely backfiring and a sharp double-edged blade. It does some good, but ALOT BAD. That's ain't a win-win, nor balanced approach/idea. Playing for joy ♥ If interested, check out my Hideout(s): /view-thread/2226019 Last edited by Moribundus#6790 on Dec 10, 2024, 2:09:02 PM
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" Perfect striking everything. I don't use anything else. |
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It's not support build diversity or creativity. But limit option and puzzle through it.
Many skill need same gem because it's work with them. Using other gem make it start to feel weird and not fit for the build player want them to be. Instead of focus on barely excel one thing for that build, you are being jack of handicap instead. Slow in, slow out cuz I'm just a player.
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Correct!
Thats why most arpgs have cooldowns or its generic added damage. The interaction between, in this case, the support gems, literally multiplying "themselfs". Every support gem giving more damage than the one before, because they are all different multiplier, forces you to put the best ones all in the same skill. That was literally my 1st thought as soon as i realized support gems are limited. They want us to use multiple skills but make it so we would actually miss out on damage by doing it. Ngl, i love poe but its actually a joke how they tried to change POE1 to have more meaninful gameplay/fights/being more difficult, which most ppl disliked. And now there is a POE2 and they build the same 1 button foundation as in POE1 but this time not in "blue", instead in "green". |
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" I'd like to point out this is what you said. 1. Not being able to use multiple of the same gems is NOT diversity. 2. We are FORCED to put some "other" support gem into a socket... Math ain't mathing. It sounds like "other" would include dozens of possibilities while the other choice is everyone uses the exact same thing... Explain again how this ISN'T promoting diverse builds? It may not be PERFECT or OPTIMAL, but it's more diverse (and plenty good enough to progress in the game). |
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I also have to disagree with this premise, if you're "forced" to use "other support gems" that you wouldn't really consider using otherwise then uh...that does kind of promote build diversity for most meaningful intents & purposes.
It is slightly frustrating at times I'll admit, but I think this mechanic achieves what it's meant to and in a not unreasonable way. If I was going to change this somehow then what I would do is add something like a support gem--maybe a meta gem?--that allows duplicate support gems to be used for a skill that the gem is socketed in, that way you can use duplicate supports if you really want but it comes at a somewhat significant cost. If this idea was implemented then whether the gem itself should also be limited to 1 is arguable, but I was assuming that it would not be limited. Last edited by Pjwned#4230 on Dec 10, 2024, 9:06:08 PM
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" Don't catch me on words out of context. If you need to explain those 2 separate things you struggling with, ain't my problem m8. Feel free to take it as an offense, althought it's not meant so, but I am not you. w/e I would say alot of ppl get the point how it is anti-diversity and how it is forced. But ok, let's formulate it otherwise. Not forced. Be it... RESTRICTED and that to such a point where you are left with something you don't want to use, but you "HAVE TO". And if you come now with "Have to?" No you don't have to... yes... feel free to re-read the 1st few sentences on this reply. If I want to use "increased duration" on a minion and as well on a TOTALY DIFFERENT CLASS of skill gem, ie. Molten Shell, or w/e... But I cannot = forced. Maybe I could get with it that I can have only 1 support gem type per minion, or per spell, or attack, ... but per any?! that's uther bs. It feels TOTALY as D3 / D4 skill "tree". cut down, restricted, zero creativity, narrowed down. Yes, you can use XYZ support gems, that's fine. The issue is not with that, the issue is, we cannot use the one we want. I tell it otherwise. DIVERSITY In PoE 1, you have the exact same opportunities of true diversity, you can put ANY support gem to ANY skill, as often you want. You don't have to put ie. "Increased duration" into Minion, another Minion, and to a different spell. But YOU CAN. However in PoE 2 You CANNOT do the same. It's not diversity, it's restricted forced way of gem setup. Just like in D3/D4. And that's SAD. Playing for joy ♥
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