Failed game balance if Melee nerfed again next league, Build diverse and bad game design

Yea at this point people that struggle with melee changes will always, and have always struggled with melee, its a skill expression/player issue at this point with the massive changes the archetype has got.

Equating 13 endurance charges to spell suppression is possibly one of the more laughable takes I have seen on this forum, and kind of highlights the lack of knowledge on what both provide.

Thinking melee is in a terrible state is definitely an opinion to have sure, but when faced with actual data and examples like this league has produced, thats all they are; opinions.

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Mashgesture wrote:

Yea at this point people that struggle with melee changes will always, and have always struggled with melee, its a skill expression/player issue at this point with the massive changes the archetype has got.

Equating 13 endurance charges to spell suppression is possibly one of the more laughable takes I have seen on this forum, and kind of highlights the lack of knowledge on what both provide.

Thinking melee is in a terrible state is definitely an opinion to have sure, but when faced with actual data and examples like this league has produced, thats all they are; opinions.

Spell suppression wished it was as good as 13 endurance charges are. I love this forum for hilarious takes like this. :D

13 endu charges is how much PDR vs spells? 52%

spell suppression cuts phys spells by 50%+

what is so strange about that? getting 13 endu charges is nigh impossible without printing mirrors. capped SS takes what? 3 item affixes and 4 passives?

am i missing something?

damage reduction is capped at 90%, suppression allows to pass this cap because it applies ~last and works on the already reduced value.

it is really, really mechanically strong, esp if you go into extreme scenarios. there is a reason why everyone and their dog want to have it capped.

sure, 13 charges has stronger effect on elemental (but again - reductions are capped at 90) but it does nothing vs chaos. and you get lots of stuff 'per charge', SS doesnt have that

again - how much does it cost to get natural 13 endu charges (not converted via slayer/badge)?

For starters you are just ignoring the presence of attacks, which spell suppression does nothing against. If you build for suppression you still need to build all kinds of other layers to not get instantly oneshot if something with a strong phys attack and 1-2 "phys as extra"-mods looks at you funny.

Pashid 100% uptime is pretty trivial but its disingenuous to say that Ralakesh isn't responsible for most of the problem, charge stackers were a thing prior to Ralakesh but they were rare and very expensive. Ralakesh is like a character template where you can just put the set items on then play any skill you want.

That's kinda fun, but I also think its bad for the game. Energy blade > battlemage/spellblade inquisitor has a similar problem but not quite as ubiquitous. If we get to a state where a template character is the go to for portion of builds I think that is a disaster personally as its going directly against PoE's greatest strength.

As to spell suppression I personally think the community overrates it, it is very powerful and probably the most passive efficient option available but dex based characters desperately needed it and didn't have the passives spare in many cases to have an expensive solution. Personally I still vastly prefer max res.

The only thing i'll add about SS is I'd have started it at 40% and put a couple of mods/specific passives around to get to 50% so it wasn't quite so strong if you took the mostly gear approach vs passives.

I do think sidtherat is a little too down on the melee changes overall I think this league has been a banger for melee but the one thing they are right about is the melee skills that don't fit into slams or strikes need their numbers tweaking as much of the power we gained this league is specific to those. The slam tag is worth like 200% more damage in terms of the scaling it enables and automatically precludes the use of any skill for ailments for example that isn't specifically tagged with an extra modifier for it.

ofc it has been a banger for melee. first actual effort in ages.

sadly they overdid some parts (warcries) while underdelivering on some (banners.. are just unusable without warcry pump)

but the problem remains - melee is still (with some exceptions - bleed, some slam setups) regarded as 'nice to map with, skip actual endgame'


it is partially due to lack of raw power for non-slam, non-bleed setups, the boss/encounter design (proliferation of unavoidable DoTs and stay-away-from-me mechanics in general). but it seems as if GGG took few strong setups, tuned around them and called it a day.



and yes, i ignore attacks because from my experience they are FAR less dangerous than spells. only few bosses use any form of attack. these you either avoid or absorb. evasion from hybrid gear (+grace)+blind(with effect) + residual block cut attacks that hit you below threshold of posing any danger besides one shot.

evasion scales much better than armour. 20k armour is as good as worthless on its own, 20k evasion actually works. then you apply blind (and blind effect if near) and attacks are no longer a problem.

cheapness is the name of the game. SS + evasion actually work when needed. and you do not need to go all in on evasion unlike with armour. get what you get, apply blind and you just removed at least half of them.

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sidtherat wrote:

but the problem remains - melee is still (with some exceptions - bleed, some slam setups) regarded as 'nice to map with, skip actual endgame'

Yea thats just not true.

Guess that is true for you, but not for the majority of melee users this league thats for sure.

the only complain i have with melee changes is the removal of flat damage from gems, It was a godsend early game and for those filthy casuals like myself that dont have the currency to get a good weapon.


may be bring back old herald of purity flat phys damage or give it to Bloodthirst Support that currently has little to no use.

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Echothesis wrote:

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Ulsarek wrote:

But I get it, you are stuck in Standard - ever so stagnant and narrow minded. You wouldn't understand.

Very civilized. If you are so sure you know the most about the game, why not try this crown argument of yours on other people in this discussion? They definitely play more than me, yet also seem to be saying the opposite of what you say about archetype balance.

You quoted a post of mine and I replied. That's how forums work. I made a more general comment on this topic before you even joined in. Still, my points remain valid and plenty other players, who actually played this league, seem to share the same or similar sentiment.

Nothing personal.

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sidtherat wrote:

13 endu charges is how much PDR vs spells? 52%

spell suppression cuts phys spells by 50%+

what is so strange about that? getting 13 endu charges is nigh impossible without printing mirrors. capped SS takes what? 3 item affixes and 4 passives?

am i missing something?

damage reduction is capped at 90%, suppression allows to pass this cap because it applies ~last and works on the already reduced value.

it is really, really mechanically strong, esp if you go into extreme scenarios. there is a reason why everyone and their dog want to have it capped.

sure, 13 charges has stronger effect on elemental (but again - reductions are capped at 90) but it does nothing vs chaos. and you get lots of stuff 'per charge', SS doesnt have that

again - how much does it cost to get natural 13 endu charges (not converted via slayer/badge)?

Oh it's even funnier than that, tricksters can just get 96% spell suppression PURELY from the skill tree for free, with 0 spell suppression suffixes on their items. Then they can just use a lesser eater of worlds ichor on their gloves for the last 4% lol, I've never even seen a build with 13 endurance charges and it would probably require insanely expensive uniques or stuff with corruption implicits for max endurance charges and mirror-tier gear.