How to survive HC SSF? Also what defense layers are needed for each character??

Genuine question.

It seems like no matter how defensive I build a character, I still just die to rare mobs in a white map with no offensive modifiers on it.

Like, I'm looking for specific numbers and thresholds here. The last character I died with was a Boneshatter Jug with like 80 max ele res capped, 40-50k armour, endurance charges, fortify and 50% chaos res and 3k life on a white map, I dont feel like I'm pushing it.

I don't understand what I'm doing wrong.

Given, that character was heavily invested with armor, and armor only, without much to other types of defenses, but at the same time, I don't know what is needed.

I understand that spell suppression is a relatively new type of defense layer, but is it also required for full investment on a raw strength character too?

I don't understand what is needed to comfortably get to max level without dying, whether the league is hardcore, softcore, or trade or whatever.


Was my Jug needing spell suppression instead of more armor investment? or more evasion/block??? Do I just need 100% spell suppression, max evasion, max block, and max armour with buffs on every single character I make?

If you take the Unbreakable ascendescy which uses some of your armor against spells then you don't care much about spell supression.

Might just need to fit in some more auras. As a boneshatter you will probably ignore all spell supression, evasion, block, and go for high armor and max resistances with damage conversion.

Do you have a guide? Try https://www.poe-vault.com/guides/boneshatter-juggernaut

I was using a guide very similar to the one you posted, really the only difference was that I didn't have vitality, maybe that would've saved me.

I also didnt have Unbreakable because I didnt have an offering to the goddess and that was the last ascendancy skill for me to take.

Also damage conversion does seem to be very rare for me to come by

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FoxyGramps919 wrote:

Genuine question.

See https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3388717/page/2#p24992001 for "vanilla" defensive layers. Should have added #0 though
0. Game Knowledge

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FoxyGramps919 wrote:

Like, I'm looking for specific numbers and thresholds here.

For most things these dont really exist outside of controlled situations like bossing.

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FoxyGramps919 wrote:

The last character I died with was a Boneshatter Jug with like 80 max ele res capped, 40-50k armour, endurance charges, fortify and 50% chaos res and 3k life on a white map, I dont feel like I'm pushing it.

For anybody asking that kind of question I would say:
3k life on T1 is just enough. 3k life on T5 is not enough.

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FoxyGramps919 wrote:

I don't understand what I'm doing wrong.

Game is complicated. There are many pitfalls - see above list. Unless you copy a working build you will have to go though every RIP (or everything that makes you take lots damage) and analyze it. Build side alone isnt enough though. No early SSFHC build can tank all so you need the game knowledge to avoid that which you cant tank. Like DD mobs, 'curses' monsters, group attacks by mage type monsters, Sparkers in small room, etc.

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FoxyGramps919 wrote:

Given, that character was heavily invested with armor, and armor only, without much to other types of defenses, but at the same time, I don't know what is needed.

No simple answer. See above list for a balanced vanilla build.

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FoxyGramps919 wrote:

I understand that spell suppression is a relatively new type of defense layer, but is it also required for full investment on a raw strength character too?

Depends. My take is the less you understand about the game and the worse your gameplay skills the more important Spell Suppression (or something else vs spells) is early on. Later on "everybody" wants either Spell Suppression or something else like high max resists.

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FoxyGramps919 wrote:

Was my Jug needing spell suppression instead of more armor investment?

You need to analyze what killed your char.

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FoxyGramps919 wrote:

max evasion,

You dont need max. Even a little - look at char stats evasion chance - is much better than none. But strong evasion helps alot for mapping.

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FoxyGramps919 wrote:

max block

If you have good evasion you dont need attack block, otherwise it depends.

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FoxyGramps919 wrote:

and max armour

Armour is important but you dont need "max".


Edit: Typo.

Also: You can use poe.ninja for getting build improvement ideas, like this:

https://poe.ninja/builds/afflictionhcssf/?time-machine=day-4&class=Juggernaut&skill=Boneshatter&minlevel=80&heatmap

So for example Spell Suppression is quite popular for Boneshatter Juggers.

And 'Unbreakable' is the most used Ascendancy Notable for them.


Edit: And everyone over 80 has >3k life.

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Zrevnur wrote:

Also: You can use poe.ninja for getting build improvement ideas, like this:

https://poe.ninja/builds/afflictionhcssf/?time-machine=day-4&class=Juggernaut&skill=Boneshatter&minlevel=80&heatmap

So for example Spell Suppression is quite popular for Boneshatter Juggers.

And 'Unbreakable' is the most used Ascendancy Notable for them.


Edit: And everyone over 80 has >3k life.

Thanks for the response, when I died it was to a beyond boss and he attacked pretty quick- it wasn't a 'random' death, I just took too much damage from 4-5 attacks in a second or so that I just wasn't prepared for

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FoxyGramps919 wrote:

Thanks for the response, when I died it was to a beyond boss and he attacked pretty quick- it wasn't a 'random' death, I just took too much damage from 4-5 attacks in a second or so that I just wasn't prepared for

Non-boss beyond mobs are more dangerous than most normal mobs and some of them are best countered by moving out of the way.
The beyond bosses are very different. Like one of them has a circular expanding aoe which can hit you multiple times if you move with it. So slowly running away at the wrong time can get you killed. Another one has some suck-you-in skill.
If you want to learn more from that RIP you need to look more closely than just "it was a beyond boss".
And IMO the obvious way to deal with any unknown bosses in HC with a weak/early char is to run away when they show up on the mini map.

Also forgot before: Close ranged self hit skills (Boneshatter here) are not good for learning the game in HC. Indirect ranged skills give you a lot more leeway. TR Ballista Champion or some such maybe.