Second Wind support Update + New cooldown recovery Support

Second wind is a support that used to be used fairly frequently as it added cooldown recovery rate with +1 charges. It was for this reason that it did not work with instant or triggered skills.

Now it has reduced cooldown recovery rate instead of increased.

There is now no longer and gems that grant cooldown recovery as an option, and the straight use case for Second Wind is low because of its restrictions that in current skill economy don't make sense.

As such two requests:

Please introduce a new support gem oriented around improving cooldown recovery rate.

And Please updated Second Wind to work with triggers and instant skills.

This would provide the previously removed option to invest into cooldown recovery and alternatively allow certain skills that suffer from poor recovery rate the capability to be used multiple times regardless of whether they have a cast time or not.

Perhaps you don't remember...but this is exactly what came up FROM GGG when they re-developed Second Wind.
Prior to the Second Wind change, GGG announced they would be splitting it into two gems: one that adds additional charges, and one that increases cooldown recovery.

They do not WANT a CD recovery support. They removed it and CHOSE not to add a replacement because it was deemed too powerful, in any form apart from being directly tied to a specific skill. It's also why more gear and other items can't roll CD recovery, and the limited numbers therein.

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

Perhaps you don't remember...but this is exactly what came up FROM GGG when they re-developed Second Wind.
Prior to the Second Wind change, GGG announced they would be splitting it into two gems: one that adds additional charges, and one that increases cooldown recovery.

They do not WANT a CD recovery support. They removed it and CHOSE not to add a replacement because it was deemed too powerful, in any form apart from being directly tied to a specific skill. It's also why more gear and other items can't roll CD recovery, and the limited numbers therein.

Mind linking the post statement that they were doing this AND that they decided not to? Because you're right about one thing, I don't remember anything about that at all aside from the nerf.

The only thing I remember at the time for cooldown recovery being heavily used for at the time of the nerf was dash, and perhaps trap skills.

"

Raghin wrote:

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

Perhaps you don't remember...but this is exactly what came up FROM GGG when they re-developed Second Wind.
Prior to the Second Wind change, GGG announced they would be splitting it into two gems: one that adds additional charges, and one that increases cooldown recovery.

They do not WANT a CD recovery support. They removed it and CHOSE not to add a replacement because it was deemed too powerful, in any form apart from being directly tied to a specific skill. It's also why more gear and other items can't roll CD recovery, and the limited numbers therein.

Mind linking the post statement that they were doing this AND that they decided not to? Because you're right about one thing, I don't remember anything about that at all aside from the nerf.

The only thing I remember at the time for cooldown recovery being heavily used for at the time of the nerf was dash, and perhaps trap skills.

traps have Advanced Traps Support that gives (50-107)% increased Cooldown Recovery Rate so the nerf was mostly for travel skills in wich case removing the support from affecting travel skill would make more sense.

I can't find the post but I SWEAR I read or heard that at the time this change was announced. Second Wind was one of the most popular support skills at the time for EVERY build (from its release in 3.10 to its destruction in 3.15).

I even remember them talking about how it was being used for unintended purposes outside of its original intended purpose of making movement skills other than flame dash relevant. It was being used for the CDR to do some pretty dirty things.

Perhaps I am rewriting my own memory based on forum conversations from that time...

They said they changed it for the sake of mobility skills which were hardly affected.

What it did affect was Shout skills which have since been pretty much trash.

For some reason they decided to buff shouts then nerf Berserker's Shout node and continue to hammer them down to worse off than they were before with Second Wind being the final nail.

yeah, the nerf was mostly for warcries. because for once melee (slams or rather ONE slam skill) were actually good

so they nuked that build from every angle they could find and then some. Second Wind, being used by 100% of players (pretty much literally) was a perfect candidate for 'adjustments'. that time they were in a foul mood and adjusted many things

Second wind was ubiquitous. from time to time i revisit my old chars and some of them used three copies of this gem.

and while the nerf was warranted, the magnitude kinda shocked

I mean if the main issue was warcries and not necessarily movement skills or traps with cooldowns then simply making it so that such a gem doesn't apply to warcries would fix it.

Though in the end that actually wouldn't matter anyway considering how much of a hit tattoos are. Definitely see them coming back and considering there is LITERALLY a tattoo that gives 10% cd recovery for warcries in the place of strength nodes, it must not be nearly as much of an problem anymore. You can literally stack them around a jewel socket then double the cooldown from it to get FAR beyond what a support would ever give warcries for CD recovery. You could literally make a build based around Generals Cry with these tattoos to spawn karui mobsters to annihilate.

"

Raghin wrote:

I mean if the main issue was warcries and not necessarily movement skills or traps with cooldowns then simply making it so that such a gem doesn't apply to warcries would fix it.

Though in the end that actually wouldn't matter anyway considering how much of a hit tattoos are. Definitely see them coming back and considering there is LITERALLY a tattoo that gives 10% cd recovery for warcries in the place of strength nodes, it must not be nearly as much of an problem anymore. You can literally stack them around a jewel socket then double the cooldown from it to get FAR beyond what a support would ever give warcries for CD recovery. You could literally make a build based around Generals Cry with these tattoos to spawn karui mobsters to annihilate.

This is how GGG has always operated and it is the single biggest thing I hate about them. They nerf things...and then add them right back in a few leagues later. This happened with so many things I can't even begin to list them. They talk about their "vision", and then continuously change and revert things over and over and over again. If they actually had a "vision", that would NOT be necessary.

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

"

Raghin wrote:

I mean if the main issue was warcries and not necessarily movement skills or traps with cooldowns then simply making it so that such a gem doesn't apply to warcries would fix it.

Though in the end that actually wouldn't matter anyway considering how much of a hit tattoos are. Definitely see them coming back and considering there is LITERALLY a tattoo that gives 10% cd recovery for warcries in the place of strength nodes, it must not be nearly as much of an problem anymore. You can literally stack them around a jewel socket then double the cooldown from it to get FAR beyond what a support would ever give warcries for CD recovery. You could literally make a build based around Generals Cry with these tattoos to spawn karui mobsters to annihilate.

This is how GGG has always operated and it is the single biggest thing I hate about them. They nerf things...and then add them right back in a few leagues later. This happened with so many things I can't even begin to list them. They talk about their "vision", and then continuously change and revert things over and over and over again. If they actually had a "vision", that would NOT be necessary.

While listing all of them is certainly more trouble than it's worth, I think the single most egregious example of this was the "We don't want players to always have flasks active" nerf literally in the same patch which added Mageblood to the game.