A new design for the PoE passive skill tree - by me

The link to the passive skill tree picture I made is here:
(the scroll bar to scroll this large picture across is at the bottom of the post. Or you can just click on the link to see it also.

http://i.imgur.com/BnQcC9d.jpg



Why I designed it

I feel the current PoE passive skill tree is needlessly complex and I really wanted to design a more user friendly version that still maintains the general feel of the passive skill tree we have now but removes all the confusion and other issues surrounding the current one. My whole principle is people who want dps passives should get them without having to waste points on other things. Same for those who want life passives and don't want to travel through + 10 skill point passives to get there. In my tree once you are in the general area you want to be in, you don't have other pick types in your way.

How my skill tree idea works

Each class has a starting point on the outside of the tree (unlike the current tree design which has starting points in the middle of the tree). And they have two entry points into the tree. The single attribute classes have 2 entry points into their favourite attribute area. And the dual classes have one entry point into each of their respective favoured attribute areas. Each area is a bunch of interconnecting talent choices, same as the current PoE skill tree.

And the lines connecting the various sections of the tree are just a guide so it can be easily understood. There could be one or multiple connections between the sections.

In my skill tree though there are a few distinct differences to the current skill tree we have now.

1. There is no overlap. As in the dex area only houses dex skills. The intel area only houses str skills. etc etc.

2. You can for example still make a strength based witch. As someone asked me of my passive skill tree. You just have to spend a few points in the intel area so you can travel over to the str area. This helps to differentiate the class areas. So sure a ranger and a witch can both be mainly str based. But both would have a few different initial passive choices. Intel and dex respectively, so they would play differently.

3. In my passive tree the vitality area is in the middle. Why? Two reasons. One is so you have to spend the first few points in your own class's type passive. Ie intel skills for a witch. Dual classes can pick either of the two favoured starting attribute type skills if they wish. And secondly is so once you reach the vitality area, you don't have to waste points going from vitality node to vitality node as in the current tree. In my tree once you are in the vitality area, you can go crazy and tank out if you wish. Without having to waste vital picks just travelling from vitality note to vitality node.

4. Duel classes really feel like duel classes. The main 3 get two entry points into one area. And the duel classes get one entry point into each of two areas. I think the current skill tree we have does this but I refined it to make it clearer.

5. The tree shape. I thought a lot about it and I feel this circle idea was rather easy to understand by people new to PoE and pros alike. And it also helps to tie in with the web site's descriptions of the classes.

I used this image from the website as inspiration for my new passive tree design.

Issues I have with my passive talent tree

1. You could make some pretty interesting builds with a lot of health and health regen and blood magic (which also would be in the vitality area). I feel this is ok as the current game stands you need a vitality/life heavy build to get very far in the game. Glass cannons or even balanced specs don't fare too well. Would this affect the balance of the game too much?

2. Would people complain that there are not any vitality pics early enough in the game? Sure they could, but I think with a little game balance or an express route to the vitality area for each class the issue would be solved.

3. Where would the special powerful passives go in my tree design? That would have to be tested out. I can think of many different places they could go. Anything is possible.

4. Do we really need 1000+ talent pics, many of which are duplicates? That is a tough one. Whether you are for or against the superfluous passives being removed from the tree, my tree design can work either way.

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Feel free to comment on this idea I have had. And thanks for reading.

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the8thark wrote:

2. Would people complain that there are not any vitality pics early enough in the game? Sure they could, but I think with a little game balance or an express route to the vitality area for each class the issue would be solved.

It wouldn't be solved. Everyone would use that express route and take all the life nodes and survivability stuff, and almost completely ignore the entire rest of the passive tree.

The problem isn't that life nodes are spread out; actually, that's probably a good thing. The problem is that those life nodes are so much better than everything else that everyone feels compelled to stack them.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

It wouldn't be solved. Everyone would use that express route and take all the life nodes and survivability stuff, and almost completely ignore the entire rest of the passive tree.

The problem isn't that life nodes are spread out; actually, that's probably a good thing. The problem is that those life nodes are so much better than everything else that everyone feels compelled to stack them.

I see your point and I agree. The game has a heavy bias toward tanky builds thanks to the difficulty curve the game has. You could always balance the numbers on the vitality passives so people would have less incentive to go to the vitality area. Or you could not have an express route to the vitality area. And make people earn their way there.

I currently am deciding if I should do a no +X% vitality passive build. And see how far I get. So far I beat Act 1 normal without any. And only the 2 bosses were tough. My point? If you can survive into act 2 with no vitality passives. (I have, I just have a ring of vitality and a few resist rings for when I need them). Then you could easy argue that you should need 20-25 points to reach the vitality area. And at that point who cares if you max out on the vitality passives.

Initially (ie in beta and soon after v1.0 is out) people will tank up. But soon enough people will try other builds. Other passive paths. And see what is possible. How much crit can you get and still be viable? Can you make a elemental only melee hitter? Etc etc. All that fun build experimentation. And that's what my tree tries to encourage.

Sure early on everyone will tank up. Diablo 3 had the same issue. Initially the wrong type of hard, and now it's just plain too easy. But since PoE has no centralised AH and I am guessing most people won't hit the trade market till at least act 3 normal, I don't see PoE having most of the same issues D3 had. The game will be much easier to balance for a diverse range of different builds.

But this is still a beta. And there is scope for small and major changes to take place if needed. I'm just putting out my ideas. And thank you for your feedback. Much appreciated.

Removing off nodes from within an area is bad. Really really bad.

It basically means using hyrid stats items (a bunch of skill gems) is impossible to reliably pull off early without defaulting to getting the stats on gear. Plus most skils aren't "purely" one stat.

See the mixed stat gear. And the nodes that benefit it.

I will speak herecy, but in order to make life passives not must have in most numbers there needs to be done 2 things. Either large health pool panishment might incure (through some mobs, and mob modifiers), or life nodesneed to be gone at all.(well damage may be reduced, but no one wants easy game)
Damage nodes by ost part to be fair too. I'd much prefered to have only few of themand all other have special effects like armor penetration,pierce, armor/evasionon hit, and some other more interesting stuff.
It is possible to attempt and balance life nodes with reduced damage and attack/casting speed modifiers, to make at least large life hard to maintain your damage. But it may lead to situations where it is better just use 1 or 2 OP skills which don't down scale with life too much.

The cleanest way to fix "life nodes always win" is to change all current health nodes to AR/EV/ES nodes. Then have all AR/EV/ES nodes give like 2% health. This makes it so that no character wants ALL the defensive nodes (at best two) and the health returns are secondary rather than primary. Flat HP nodes are OK though.

Then every MELEE SPECIFIC node gets about 2% Health added to it. That makes melee slightly tankier, but the bonus isn't large enough to attract ranged characters.

To this increase base health per level by ~20-30%. This closes the gap between before and after the changes. Makes ranged characters slightly beefier without investment into life and therefore feel better about taking offense nodes. Depresses ailment effect change on CI characters "for free" and most importantly removes some of the weight form itemizatioin on melee characters.

The end result would be lower health pools of course. 2-4% health on nodes would work, giving max returns of 200-400% health on a build similar to numbers now. But HP becomes a secondary concern because you get so much "free" on melee (tanky) builds.

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Autocthon wrote:

The cleanest way to fix "life nodes always win" is to change all current health nodes to AR/EV/ES nodes. Then have all AR/EV/ES nodes give like 2% health. This makes it so that no character wants ALL the defensive nodes (at best two) and the health returns are secondary rather than primary. Flat HP nodes are OK though.

Then every MELEE SPECIFIC node gets about 2% Health added to it. That makes melee slightly tankier, but the bonus isn't large enough to attract ranged characters.

To this increase base health per level by ~20-30%. This closes the gap between before and after the changes. Makes ranged characters slightly beefier without investment into life and therefore feel better about taking offense nodes. Depresses ailment effect change on CI characters "for free" and most importantly removes some of the weight form itemizatioin on melee characters.

The end result would be lower health pools of course. 2-4% health on nodes would work, giving max returns of 200-400% health on a build similar to numbers now. But HP becomes a secondary concern because you get so much "free" on melee (tanky) builds.

Good ideas, it would solve most problems. I also suggest speeding the whole game up, like a permanent turbo league but reducing monster damage, that would preserve or even increase the challenge but reduce the need to stack so much life in the first place to dampen damage spikes and avoid stun/shock/freeze, armor would work better too.

I think a better idea would just be to give characters more health gained per level, change the health nodes into increased base health percent and add some implicit health/energy shield mods onto armour pieces.

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Fuuljo wrote:

I think a better idea would just be to give characters more health gained per level, change the health nodes into increased base health percent and add some implicit health/energy shield mods onto armour pieces.

Give each area it's own defence node.

intel = +shield and +life
Dex = +evasion rating (not evasion %) and +life
Str = +armour and +life

This is one possible way of doing it. Another is as you said add more + health affixes to the armour pieces.

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the8thark wrote:

"

Fuuljo wrote:

I think a better idea would just be to give characters more health gained per level, change the health nodes into increased base health percent and add some implicit health/energy shield mods onto armour pieces.

Give each area it's own defence node.

intel = +shield and +life
Dex = +evasion rating (not evasion %) and +life
Str = +armour and +life

This is one possible way of doing it. Another is as you said add more + health affixes to the armour pieces.

Could work but may streamline defense too much,I guess a better solution is to make your health gain increase per level,so in High levels you could get more than a hundred HP.Also reworking both evasion and armor to be more effective and worthy investing on,lastly tonning down some mob damage while adding new abilities and increased attack speed may also work in favor of buffing both defenses.