I am absolutely done with this game and GGG as a whole

GGG does not respect player time
GGG does not respect player grind
GGG does not respect player investment
GGG does not respect player losses that are no fault of their own
and that last point for me is the final nail in the coffin and I now absolutely despise GGG as a developer for it. but let me explain

I am sick to death of grinding day in day out for practically nothing I can use. basically playing hoarding simulator. for an absolutely minute chance at gaining something I can use. or something I can use to buy something I can use. only to consistently lose resources every day because of random disconnects that either make me lose my portals or kick me out of the game while I'm doing other things. I have lost divines in the last couple of weeks because of this. divines I could've used to buy my first HH which has been my primary goal of late

because, you know, I have a life. and I cannot be watching this game 24/7. sometimes I have to eat, sometimes I have to bathe, sometimes I have to clean up, I have responsibilities, I have to answer phone calls, I have to fetch parcels, I have to go to the toilet. many of these things I do not know I have to do them until I have to do them. so I cannot simply stop mapping and wait in my hideout. I have to take a minute or two and idle in my maps. but many times when I do this, when I come back. I've been DC'd. I relog. my portals are gone, along with my map and my scarabs. this happens multiple times a day.

most of the time when it happens I'm actively playing, I am not away from the game at all so I know its a server side issue and is not because I have been logged out for however long it takes for instances to reset. sometimes it is, but even then, I should not be losing my goddamn maps and resources because I have to answer an important phone call or make some food only to come back and find I've been DC'd and have been logged out for a few minutes so have lost my map

I do not suffer lag, ever, literally ever. I do not suffer these same connection issues in any other game, and I never have. my connection is stable. it always has been. the issue is clearly server side. or an issue with the way maps are routed

I have addressed this in G1 a few times and quite often others have mentioned suffering the same issues as me at the same time too. so again, I know this problem isn't a result of anything on my side. I remember specifically someone mentioning losing an uber elder run and another losing a simulacrum. which afaik are endgame runs that require a lot of investment to acquire. and quite honestly. that in itself is massively demoralising

the problem this presents me with, aside from the de-incentivization to play because of constant losses that I have earned through days of grind. is the problem of reaching true "endgame" - where I will be tackling the hardest content, investing the most resources into juicing maps, crafting and working up to boss fights. what is the point of me doing this when I will inevitably be working my ass off for days to reach a goal only to have that goal taken from me because of a server side DC that has taken my portals and my resources from me? what is the point? there is no point. it is a blatant waste of my time and an insult to me as a paying customer. you want me to play your game? you want me to put money into your game? stabilise your goddamn connectivity and add some sort of protection so that players don't lose resources upon disconnecting. and some sort of protection so that "empty" maps or rather maps with no players in them are not reset / deleted while you're taking a dump and have been DC'd. lots of other "small indie devs" manage to do this. warframe for example. they acknowledge connectivity issue resource losses and mitigate it through a number of functions. why do you not do this GGG? this game has been around for what, 10 years? and you don't protect your player base from losses accrued due to server side issues? is this a design flaw? an oversight? or is it intentional negative incentivisation aka we won't protect you from losses that aren't your fault because we want you to feel compelled to grind even harder to make up for them. either way, it doesn't matter, because its not respectful of my time and investment and I will not put any more energy into a game or a dev that does not respect me

so yeah, I won't be doing that. because there is no assuredness of me keeping the things I've "grinded even harder for to make up for the previous losses". so you have lost a paying customer due to this issue. and I won't be coming back as chris' vision entails because yes the game may be infinitely replayable and yes the game may pull people back in a lot after they've quit. but for me, whats the point in playing if you work hard for things and lose those things you earn through no fault of your own

It is true that they do not respect your time investments.

I play the trade site and not PoE for this reason.

I am an optimist however. I figure I'll horde currency and legacy items until PoE gets put on "Maintenance mode" some years in the future. Then, when it looks like most of the "10-year-beta-test" is finished, I'll settle in and make some really really magnificent characters.

I know this probably seems a bit silly, but I really hate wasting my time with characters that stop working properly.

Someday frens. Someday the long beta will end.

Then I can have fun for a few years before they close the servers down. (Hopefully).

Great post. Everything you wrote can be summarised in one sentence: GGG does not want to change.

They are completely stuck in the mindset of making content harder/addicting. Sadly in this holy crusade game is losing it's identity every patch, becoming boring grindfest.

"

Someday frens. Someday the long beta will end.

long betas never end mate
assigning the long beta status to games gives devs legal protections from any changes that may degrade the quality of the product over time and also plausible deniability should those devs change the game in ways that could be perceived as exploitative and predatory in later updates (as many do when they have already established a "loyal" or "addicted" player base)

if a dev assigns long beta status to a game they are admitting they are playing the long game and you can pretty much guess the pattern to which that game is going to follow, which I already highlighted above but will highlight again below

>create a great game with a great core concept
>make sure to advertise as a spiritual successor of another popular title
>build a loyal fanbase
>make loyal fanbase perpetually addicted
>focus on MTX store over updates and QOL changes
>play cat and mouse with player base over time in regards to shoddy updates
>announce major overhaul 5-10 years after initial release
>slowly build up hype keeping the player base addicted
>focus development of more MTX / pay for convenience / pay to win during this waiting period
>main point of the game is status signalling in-game via mtx up until overhaul
>sell out to major corporation
>double down on above tactics
>abandon project, rename dev, move staff around a bit
>create new project
>rinse / repeat

"

mrjblack1989 wrote:

long betas never end mate
assigning the long beta status to games gives devs legal protections from any changes that may degrade the quality of the product over time and also plausible deniability should those devs change the game in ways that could be perceived as exploitative and predatory in later updates (as many do when they have already established a "loyal" or "addicted" player base)

if a dev assigns long beta status to a game they are admitting they are playing the long game and you can pretty much guess the pattern to which that game is going to follow, which I already highlighted above but will highlight again below

>create a great game with a great core concept
>make sure to advertise as a spiritual successor of another popular title
>build a loyal fanbase
>make loyal fanbase perpetually addicted
>focus on MTX store over updates and QOL changes
>play cat and mouse with player base over time in regards to shoddy updates
>announce major overhaul 5-10 years after initial release
>slowly build up hype keeping the player base addicted
>focus development of more MTX / pay for convenience / pay to win during this waiting period
>main point of the game is status signalling in-game via mtx up until overhaul
>sell out to major corporation
>double down on above tactics
>abandon project, rename dev, move staff around a bit
>create new project
>rinse / repeat

I don't believe it's as malicious as you would portray it. I've watched this cycle happen several times in the last 20 years, and in the case of Blizzard and Mythic, I had acquaintances working in development that, years after the fact, shared details of what was happening internally when various titles fell apart.

These sorts of games start out as passion projects - this is why they begin so well made and are so enjoyable. The original teams pour their hearts into the software, which results in a very good product.

A good product breeds success and growth. At some point, the original devs are either bought out or move up the ladder. In either case, accounting begins to slowly gain control over the development cycle. Preservation of the institution becomes the top priority rather than daring innovation.

Why?

Daring innovation is risky - it might produce something exceptional - it might also fail catastrophically. (See Mythic's Imperator for an example, which effectively killed the company and forced them to sell to EA).

Accounting's primary function is to maintain a stable business that will attract investors and to generate more funding. This inevitably sticks the game in a rut as they slowly but surely begin to dictate the product's direction.

Compounding this, the original development team, who poured their lifeblood and sweat into the product are now supervising or have moved on to the next project/company. The people who began the project were the sorts who would work 80 hour weeks and 20 hour days - because the title was their baby.

The new employees?

The game is just a job. Perhaps a high status job, but just a 40 hour a week, 8 hours a day job. (Except during crunch obviously). The new blood is not willing to run themselves ragged to perfect a dream the way the original devs were.

This, and the gradual take-over by accounting's bean-counters drags the game down a rat-hole which ends in a buy-out by a truly predatory company like EA and Activision.

I watched this happen to Blizzard and Mythic, and I've spent a great deal of time speaking with developers (former) from both companies.

Titles like Path of Exile begin in a very benign way. They didn't set out to rob you or mistreat us.

Sadly, this does appear to be the general cycle of software. You either stay small and die a hero, or grow until you become the bad guy.

That said, a title this large will linger for years after all development stops. I'll hoard and collect absurd quantities of currency and items until then.

Then I will greatly enjoy Path of Exile's Twilight, knowing that, there simply isn't the resources to keep the perma-beta running.

My Diablo II accounts are over 20 years old. There hasn't been a balance patch in about nine(?) years. I still play regularly, often times with PoE running in the background.

There will come a point when I can enjoy PoE the way I enjoy Diablo 2.

For a while anyways.

It's not what I want. Not for GGG or for PoE. But there are levels of enjoyment I am willing to accept.

"

It's not what I want. Not for GGG or for PoE. But there are levels of enjoyment I am willing to accept.

all of this is actually some really good food for thought, thank you mate