The "Vision" is trying to make the ultimate skinner box through deception. And you're failing

I loved path of exile, it's my favorite game. As I got more experienced and accustomed to the game, around 3.15 is when I started realizing what GGG does, is doing and will do. I didn't think much of it, but as 3.16 came I doubted GGG more, 3.17, more, 3.18 I skipped and 3.19, this league I am absolutely done and have no more trust in GGG and the future of this game or it's expansion.

I'm going to detail a common opinion about the game right now - it's bad and needs to be reverted:

First, here's the comment that can summarize what GGG is really like and the comment that makes the most upset:

"I'm just going to reply to this one comment because I need to take a break from this. But I have seen this sentiment a few times and I wanted to address it.

Please re-read the post we made yesterday. It clarifies that drops for average players are where they were before. You find 25% more currency from regular content than you did before the expansion deployed, for example. You find more than 50% more unique items from regular content!

There is no winning the lottery needed. This is a misconception that is causing a lot of damage and I don't know where it came from. The whole point of all of this was to tone down the lottery wins to not be 15k unique items and to be more appropriate. So the very few elite people took a hit (but are still doing fine) and everyone else benefited. Somehow it created the perception that we did the exact opposite." - Chris Wilson


This is a joke and failed deception.

"It clarifies the drops for average players are where they were before" - For those who aren't bootlicking and especially if you saw Balor's extended spreadsheet you know what this means. The average player cannot be you or me, it is rather someone who MAYBE runs white maps and doesn't know what a chisel does. They try to hide behind the nicely sounding "average player". They know loot is gone for us and it's intended.

"You find 25% more currency from **regular content** than you did before the expansion deployed" - this is the best description of them being deceptive. What's regular content? Well, its just uhh what you regularly do right?... No, "regular content" is content with no league specifics, no IIQ/IIR modifiers from basic juicing. "Regular content" is Acts. "Regular content" is a white, un-alched map with no league specific mobs or events in it. Yes, you are correct, that drops 25% more. How about a yellow alched map with 20% quality? Well according to balor's spreadsheet it can be roughly 60% less loot or even worse.

They hide behind technical meaning and try to act like they don't know what's going on and don't understand why the player is upset. That's deception.

"You find more than 50% more unique items from regular content!" - First of all - who cares? Second, "regular content".

"There is no winning the lottery needed. This is a misconception that is causing a lot of damage and I don't know where it came from." - This "misconception" is now the meta - you find the solaris lottery and call a TFT culler. That's 90%+ of your wealth. And I don't believe for a second you don't know where it came from because everybody else did. But you're right, it's causing a lot of damage.

So the very few elite people took a hit (but are still doing fine) and everyone else benefited. Somehow it created the perception that we did the exact opposite." - Yes the elite took a hit. A 95% hit. And everyone else did not benefit, that's a straight up lie. Why else would this be the worst rated, worst retention, 29% positive steam reviews, terrible league that it is? Is this the "elites" work?

So in total, we've established GGG is definitely lying. And it can be derived pretty easily they're trying to deceive people. Why is this? Let's dig a little.


**What and why they're doing this**

There's alot of factors that people have pointed out. The primary aggravating factor is that for a long time, they've been trying to do 1 (one) thing: try to make the players play longer. This is done through a variety of methods. League content becomes more interrupting and makes a map last much longer for un-proportional rewards. Skills get nerfed over time, or through a massive 3.15 nerf. Hence, you need to upgrade your gear more, hence you need to spend more currency, hence you need to play more. Defenses get nerfed so you have to upgrade your gear more. Harvest gets continuously nerfed so you can't progress as fast. Etc. And now we're seeing a huge leap of slashing loot, killing harvest and making archnemesis much harder only to make them a little easier in the future. They made archnemesis core, I wonder why despite the disdain.

So they are trying to make the game slower, and make gear progression longer. Okay. Why are they putting loot in spikes rather than giving it consistently in this league?

Well aside from what I believe to be issues in upper-middle management (check out glassdoor), they're trying to implement an industry standard practice in games. I forget the name of the idea, but there was a quite large study done that showed effectively this: the absence of rewards before a payoff is what makes games addictive, not the rewards itself. I remember reading about it in reference to League of Legends - players aren't reinforced by winning (you wouldn't be very addicted if you constantly won) but rather, losing one or multiple times and trying to chase the win. The addiction lies in creating gaps between payoffs. It also increases time spent. Unless it's a completely botched job like we see here. Check out google scholar for studies if you're interested.

So they want the game to be slower and more addictive. They're doing it through the mentioned means - making rewarding mechanics less rewarding, making skills and defenses take more investment hence more time, spacing out rewards and trying to put them into higher spikes but creating the same average, etc.

"But they said in a post they're not trying to slow player progression!!!" - It's a lie.

"We don't try to help engagement by slowing down player progression. Not long ago, we significantly shortened the length of time it takes to complete the Atlas, and we did this to improve engagement.

I'll make sure we discuss this feedback as I'm aware there are several other feedback points coming up that relate to this."

Yeah sure if you put the atlas into ritual the way it is now, it would be faster. But it's now in kalandra where progression is slowed and people notice and have disdain for the lack of currency to progress properly such as alchemy orbs. But sure, you proved you're not slowing progression by providing one example of increasing progression rate versus the dozens of reasons why it's slower.

So overall, this is why they're making the changes they are and not backing off. And sometimes, theyll heavily nerf something and then buff it a little to try and deceive while maintaining their overall goal. It's all for one thing - make players play longer. Because the theory is, the longer people play the more they spend.


**More fake promises and deception**

Let's look at their recent post - following up on recent feedback:

"As we mentioned in our last post, some players have noted that they'd prefer item drops to have lower variance - i.e. fewer big spikes of valuable rewards with the rewards averaged out across more encounters. This is something we're still discussing. "

- They've massively gone in one direction (big spikes, no consistency) and then will **maybe** improve this to make the player feel that the situation has improved when the net result is in their favor and not the players.

"... We are keen for specific feedback around which past league encounters in the lake don't feel quite right in terms of rewards. Please include as much detail as possible around your experiences. "

- Nice way of saying we'll 'look into it', but the only thing that's going to change is a 50% increase in reflecting mist.

"We are also aware that there is a lot of disappointment around certain Harvest Crafts being removed. Previously, Harvest Crafting was balanced by how difficult it was to get the crafts that you want. Now that crafts are tradeable, Harvest's power was reduced to be more in line with other crafting methods. We understand that there is a call for us to bring those crafts back but it isn't really possible while allowing Harvest to remain tradeable.

- Then REVERT IT. There doesn't need to be compromises - you can simply make it untradeable again. But at least for one time in the recent past they're being honest and saying 'no we will not change it' even though the players benefit. All in the name of slowing progression. Let me ask - if its not for slowing player progression what other possible motive could they have for removing the important crafts, making it untradeable then blaming the inabililty to revert due to it being untradeable? Oh right because harvest is just uhh "too powerful" and you want a "balanced game". I wonder how many people share that sentiment.

And don't let me let you forget about the other deceptive actions such as not putting a massively negatively critiqued nerf in the patch notes until the supporter packs have sold and the league has started. Then claiming ignorance. And whatever else you'd like to add.

** Overall **

Your attempt at making this great game the ultimate skinner box to create more sales is failing. And your deception is being seen through by many. I don't think Tencent is at fault. They may have asked them for higher revenues and this is their attempt but I genuinely think they are trying to squeeze the life out of this game to try and make it more profitable in the end.

There's so, so many lies and obvious attempts at deception like "well we didn't understand the impact" or "we're reviewing this" or "... i ****** up." and more. People are sick of it.

Before all this, you already made great money! Oh but instead of x million you need x*1.5 million? For who? The developers aren't going to get a 50% raise. People liked the fast paced, rewarding game and spent money on supporter packs and mtx as a result. Why is that not good enough? I wish I could see your quarterly reports and salaries.

You are utterly failing at your attempt to implement "the vision" of a longer, more profitable game. It was simple - just add more fun mechanics, keep things relatively balanced but instead we're converging to "the vision". You are ruining your game. People are heavily critiquing you and you could just revert things. But you won't and people know why.

"Never attribute to malice that you can to stupidity". They are not stupid. They have made a great game and know it's details inside and out. They know what they're doing and are failing at it. This is malice.

I personally predict that the player amount during launches will start to decrease and retention will keep being hideous relative to before 3.15. I hope you lose money so you open your eyes and stop killing this game.

It's not YOUR game, its OUR game and we let you stay afloat by SUPPORTING you. Without the players there would be no game. Yet you actively deceive, lie and kill our game.

I don't see this getting better - it's over.

I don't get it - was the loot of basic non-league monsters affected? Because strongboxes and shrines still spill out basic monsters. Was the loot from them reduced somehow?

"

Johny_Snow wrote:

I don't get it - was the loot of basic non-league monsters affected? Because strongboxes and shrines still spill out basic monsters. Was the loot from them reduced somehow?

Flat rate loot like strongboxes, expedition, heist, etc are buffed but gutted league specific monsters. Look up Balor's extended spreadsheet if you're interested.

"... we removed a massive historic bonus to item quantity and/or rarity that applied to some league-specific monsters. We replaced it with a moderate (2-3x) increase to item quantity"

Ok, so you lied. I am running influenced bosses + Kirac + Strongboxes + Shrines tier 16 and I am getting more loot than normal. So your thesis that once you reach yellow maps you get less is wrong.

"

Johny_Snow wrote:

Ok, so you lied. I am running influenced bosses + Kirac + Strongboxes + Shrines tier 16 and I am getting more loot than normal. So your thesis that once you reach yellow maps you get less is wrong.

I'm sure you are bud.

"

GunHammers wrote:

Yeah a lot of those ArcNem mods severely handicap several builds in very generic ways. The base gameplay already fucks you over by having to get 15 different defensive layers just to avoid most 1 shots. being required to become immune to almost every ailment in the game because being afflicted for even a second could spell death.

theres almost no way to reduce effects or increase their alpha values which I imagine should be very easy with how VFX works. but with their spaghetti code over at GGG maybe its more complex than self driving AI.

and all that defense for what? the gameplay is extremely unrewarding because you can never interact with the enemy at all. its an extreme danger zone and your only option is to be as incredibly risk averse as possible.

At ACT3-5 the speed of the game is really great, after that the enemies start to act in an erratic manner. your speeds increase, your damage increases.

and this see-saw of speed and power have been skewing back and forth every single update. And in the last few updates they have (for some god awful reason)
decided that the Player is too strong, and the enemies aren't strong enough.

When in fact they were both too strong (unless you want a zoom zoom zoom brainless with 0 interaction between mechanics) IN WHICH CASE YOU LEAVE THE GAME HOW IT WAS.

yes perhaps the top 1% of the top 1% of players are so good at the game is a fucking breeze, wow WHO CARES? the top 1% of players are richer than 99% of the players. WOW THE GUYS WHO SPEND MORE TIME AND EFFORT ARE REWARDED? WOAW WHAT A NUTTY CONCEPT.

GGG also has learned the awful habit of saying 1 thing and doing something completely different. That deception is INTENTIONAL, Notable Masteries being the biggest example of this recently. With all the Gem nerfs during this patch, players believed the Notable Masteries would solve some of this and give back something for losing damage on Gems. Guess what, you now have to spend 10+ more points to get the same things your build previously had already.

If this is some kind of road to POE2, it was not worth it. It should have been its OWN GAME. the anger, frustration and shock we have endured from playing these recent patches have been an absolute FUCK YOU to the player base.

If all these changes were strictly in POE2 and POE1 was still its own game that had all the legacy stuff before all these stupid balance changes came on.
You would have split your fanbase possibly in some ways. but guess what nobody would have been angry. nobody at all. all the supporter items could have been copied to POE2 and function in POE1 normally. And all the new POE2 microtransactions could stay in POE2.

Who exactly would be upset by this? I don't think anyone would be and it would not be hard to do. but you are stubborn and are flipping your game on its head after almost a decade for what purpose?

I go back and I play Street Fighter 2, Street Fighter 3,4, alpha. I can play the old games whenever I want. for some reason you basically deleted POE1 to create whatever Frankenstein creature POE2 is going to be. A game that could have stood on its own, with its own merit and its own reception.

Maybe there is some kind of cultural disconnect here with this company being that you're all from new zealand, but I'm honestly baffled every time I notice something incredibly stupid in this game. Coming from someone who has been playing since the Beta Key ticker was on the front page going off every hour with a new person's bot account getting in. Maybe that should have been the sign of all the awful things to come.

I would say thanks for all the gameplay you have given us, but you keep spitting directly into our faces.

Going to quote myself here from a few minutes ago because we have basically come to the same conclusion, i dont watch streamers, or browse reddit. its painfully clear what has been happening to this game.

"

UguuAuu wrote:

"

Johny_Snow wrote:

Ok, so you lied. I am running influenced bosses + Kirac + Strongboxes + Shrines tier 16 and I am getting more loot than normal. So your thesis that once you reach yellow maps you get less is wrong.

I'm sure you are bud.

You just admitted none of the mechanics I run have reduced loot, their loot has even been increased. So no, by your own words I am right and you are wrong.

Sucks you won't admit it though, nobody likes being wrong.

Oh my bad, the thousands of players complaining and the spreadsheets are wrong and you are right. I stand corrected

"

Johny_Snow wrote:

"

UguuAuu wrote:

"

Johny_Snow wrote:

Ok, so you lied. I am running influenced bosses + Kirac + Strongboxes + Shrines tier 16 and I am getting more loot than normal. So your thesis that once you reach yellow maps you get less is wrong.

I'm sure you are bud.

You just admitted none of the mechanics I run have reduced loot, their loot has even been increased. So no, by your own words I am right and you are wrong.

Sucks you won't admit it though, nobody likes being wrong.

Me and Johny_Snow here aren't exactly pals but I'm gonna vouch for him here on the loot, he knows his stuff enough to do very well every league i've seen him play, If he says the loot is increased i'd take his word for it.

"

GunHammers wrote:

"

GunHammers wrote:

Yeah a lot of those ArcNem mods severely handicap several builds in very generic ways. The base gameplay already fucks you over by having to get 15 different defensive layers just to avoid most 1 shots. being required to become immune to almost every ailment in the game because being afflicted for even a second could spell death.

theres almost no way to reduce effects or increase their alpha values which I imagine should be very easy with how VFX works. but with their spaghetti code over at GGG maybe its more complex than self driving AI.

and all that defense for what? the gameplay is extremely unrewarding because you can never interact with the enemy at all. its an extreme danger zone and your only option is to be as incredibly risk averse as possible.

At ACT3-5 the speed of the game is really great, after that the enemies start to act in an erratic manner. your speeds increase, your damage increases.

and this see-saw of speed and power have been skewing back and forth every single update. And in the last few updates they have (for some god awful reason)
decided that the Player is too strong, and the enemies aren't strong enough.

When in fact they were both too strong (unless you want a zoom zoom zoom brainless with 0 interaction between mechanics) IN WHICH CASE YOU LEAVE THE GAME HOW IT WAS.

yes perhaps the top 1% of the top 1% of players are so good at the game is a fucking breeze, wow WHO CARES? the top 1% of players are richer than 99% of the players. WOW THE GUYS WHO SPEND MORE TIME AND EFFORT ARE REWARDED? WOAW WHAT A NUTTY CONCEPT.

GGG also has learned the awful habit of saying 1 thing and doing something completely different. That deception is INTENTIONAL, Notable Masteries being the biggest example of this recently. With all the Gem nerfs during this patch, players believed the Notable Masteries would solve some of this and give back something for losing damage on Gems. Guess what, you now have to spend 10+ more points to get the same things your build previously had already.

If this is some kind of road to POE2, it was not worth it. It should have been its OWN GAME. the anger, frustration and shock we have endured from playing these recent patches have been an absolute FUCK YOU to the player base.

If all these changes were strictly in POE2 and POE1 was still its own game that had all the legacy stuff before all these stupid balance changes came on.
You would have split your fanbase possibly in some ways. but guess what nobody would have been angry. nobody at all. all the supporter items could have been copied to POE2 and function in POE1 normally. And all the new POE2 microtransactions could stay in POE2.

Who exactly would be upset by this? I don't think anyone would be and it would not be hard to do. but you are stubborn and are flipping your game on its head after almost a decade for what purpose?

I go back and I play Street Fighter 2, Street Fighter 3,4, alpha. I can play the old games whenever I want. for some reason you basically deleted POE1 to create whatever Frankenstein creature POE2 is going to be. A game that could have stood on its own, with its own merit and its own reception.

Maybe there is some kind of cultural disconnect here with this company being that you're all from new zealand, but I'm honestly baffled every time I notice something incredibly stupid in this game. Coming from someone who has been playing since the Beta Key ticker was on the front page going off every hour with a new person's bot account getting in. Maybe that should have been the sign of all the awful things to come.

I would say thanks for all the gameplay you have given us, but you keep spitting directly into our faces.

Going to quote myself here from a few minutes ago because we have basically come to the same conclusion, i dont watch streamers, or browse reddit. its painfully clear what has been happening to this game.

Yeah I have seen the same sentiment and I'm not surprised you came to the same conclusion without outside sources. It sucks to watch because it's a lot of our favorite game. I personally don't think it's a cultural disconnect or anything like that but rather it 100% lies in the fault of upper-middle management and their intentions. I'm gonna go try warframe, lost ark or last epoch.