The Self Found League

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I would definitely join this league.

Though, I would prefer a similar league where items only got bound on account when used. Many items would be taken out of the market that way, but there would still be some trading left.

I don't know if the system where items would be bound on account would actually work, but in any way I would prefer the league that had the most emphasis on crafting your own items.

i like

^bumpage^

Rereading this thread makes me curious how many different "self found" leagues they'd need to create in order to make us "self founders" happy. Then again, it's possible that providing ANY way to opt out of the economic simulator would be good enough.

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snapple99 wrote:

^bumpage^

Rereading this thread makes me curious how many different "self found" leagues they'd need to create in order to make us "self founders" happy. Then again, it's possible that providing ANY way to opt out of the economic simulator would be good enough.

Really I would be happy with any way to opt out of trading. What I would like to see is a marginal increase in currency drops to compensate, or even better a system where only white un-socketed gear drops from mobs but there is a substantial increase in orb drops to support crafting. As I said though, even if drop rates were exactly the same I would be giddy to join a SFL and would play it exclusively.

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emtwo wrote:

As I said though, even if drop rates were exactly the same I would be giddy to join a SFL and would play it exclusively.

So in your case is this a bragging rights thing? Otherwise you really can simply do self-found right now... no fuss, no bother. It's kind of what I did until I decided it was too stupid to continue. I know how it'd get done in theory. I just don't want to start up 10 characters simply to play one of them. I don't want to have to create my own little private economy. And I don't want to be facing Piety with 1-link and occasionally 2-link skills.

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I do think though that the disagreement goes beyond the mere scale to which players abandon other leagues and flock to SFL. Scrotie holds the belief that a large exodus to SFL would be a bad thing, whereas I'm convinced that even if everyone went to SFL that this is not inherently bad. If everyone, or just mostly everyone, would prefer SFL then how is harm being done by providing it.

Let's, for the sake of discussing this quote, assume that Scrotie is correct about a mass exodus from trading leagues. This would, in my opinion, be bad for the game. It relegates players who enjoy trade to precisely the same position we self found players find ourselves in now. I'm not looking to destroy someone else's playstyle in order to improve my own.

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emtwo wrote:

As I said though, even if drop rates were exactly the same I would be giddy to join a SFL and would play it exclusively.

Just for clarification, emtwo, I have to ask why SFL as a separate league is important to you given what you've said in this quote. As snapple99 said, if that's all you're after then you can have exactly that right now.

While I don't pretend to put words in your mouth here, that position makes sense to me only as a desire to dictate that others play the same way as you. I can't speak for anyone but myself but that's not what I personally think a self found league is, or should be, about. The entire problem, as I see it, is that trade so heavily influences the way the existing leagues are set up that it's as though GGG is trying to forcefully shove us into it whether we like it or not. I don't think the solution to that is to forceibly shove everyone else into our preference.

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Thaelyn wrote:

Let's, for the sake of discussing this quote, assume that Scrotie is correct about a mass exodus from trading leagues. This would, in my opinion, be bad for the game. It relegates players who enjoy trade to precisely the same position we self found players find ourselves in now. I'm not looking to destroy someone else's playstyle in order to improve my own.

Wouldn't a "mass exodus" imply that the vast majority of players are already trading "under duress" so to speak? I find that hard to swallow, but if it did happen, then it would just show that GGG have created yet another game based on a model that has passed its use-by-date.

Also, wouldn't the only people left behind be the small minority that enjoy playing "trade-tycoon" way more than they like hacking/slashing and finding cool lewts?

With that in mind, let's briefly re-visit the loot options issue that was raised earlier in this thread. GGG created the options because there was an overwhelming demand from the player-base, right? Certain people felt disadvantaged by the changes, and have made a lot of noise about it, BUT it remains; GGG are running a business etc. etc.

I don't think calls for SFL have remotely approached the "volume levels" that the loot-options thread(s) have achieved, and this may explain the deathly silence on GGG's part with regard to this matter. Perhaps they don't want to be distracted by it, so close to "release date", who knows?

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Thaelyn wrote:

The entire problem, as I see it, is that trade so heavily influences the way the existing leagues are set up that it's as though GGG is trying to forcefully shove us into it whether we like it or not.

Yeah, unfortunately, the Barter Economy is part of the "Core Design" and I've been told by a couple of people "this game is not for you!"... I've finally capitulated =)

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DijiGo wrote:

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Thaelyn wrote:

Let's, for the sake of discussing this quote, assume that Scrotie is correct about a mass exodus from trading leagues. This would, in my opinion, be bad for the game. It relegates players who enjoy trade to precisely the same position we self found players find ourselves in now. I'm not looking to destroy someone else's playstyle in order to improve my own.

Wouldn't a "mass exodus" imply that the vast majority of players are already trading "under duress" so to speak?

That's preposterous. Surely you recognize that the average PoE player trades willingly for items such as drop-only and high-quality gems, if nothing else; only a small minority actually desire a pure self-found mode.

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DijiGo wrote:

Also, wouldn't the only people left behind be the small minority that enjoy playing "trade-tycoon" way more than they like hacking/slashing and finding cool lewts?

That's exactly the problem; no more of that light trading that the typical player engages in.

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DijiGo wrote:

With that in mind, let's briefly re-visit the loot options issue that was raised earlier in this thread. GGG created the options because there was an overwhelming demand from the player-base, right? Certain people felt disadvantaged by the changes, and have made a lot of noise about it, BUT it remains; GGG are running a business etc. etc.

Everyone is disadvantaged by the loot options changes; it's just that many believe the disadvantages are outweighed by the benefit, creating a net gain. Perhaps they have a point, but I strongly believe that the opportunity for even greater gain was there, making loot options a suboptimal and therefore poor decision.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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DijiGo wrote:

Wouldn't a "mass exodus" imply that the vast majority of players are already trading "under duress" so to speak?

That's preposterous. Surely you recognize that the average PoE player trades willingly for items such as drop-only and high-quality gems, if nothing else; only a small minority actually desire a pure self-found mode.

I'm not even sure what you are arguing at this point.

If "only a small minority actually desire a pure self-found mode" then there WON"T BE a mass exodus.
A mass exodus implies > majority abandon ship > implies majority unhappy with the current model.

That's the whole point.

The scare-mongering implying that a SFL would destroy the game, or "ruin it for everybody" (your words) is the barrow that YOU have been pushing.

And now you are completely reversing your position? WTF

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Everyone is disadvantaged by the loot options changes...

That is your opinion, and it is clearly not shared by GGG.