molten shell > all other guard skill

Determination is already powerful in this league + molten shell you are literally tank god


I tested some builds that use molten shell and others that use immortal call and steelskin and i tell you, both are likely have same DPS but the survivability is 10times higher with builds that use determination + molten shell.


They should improve immortal call and steelskin to be honest.


If they want to keep determination and molten shell that way, then give some buff to immortal call and steelskin.

heck even if you make the cooldown of steelskin to 1sec, I will still choose molten shell with determination, thats how OP molten shell is along with determination. not to mention the vaal molten shell too and they have a very long duration.

Also where is the vaal immortcal call? we need to release the rework of vaal immortcal call.

You're not wrong, determination and molten shell are an extremely powerful defensive combo. But don't you think this is an unfair comparison?

Aside from the fact that you're literally comparing two synergistic skills to one skill, there's clearly a much higher opportunity cost for the option which requires 50% mana reservation. So ofc determination + molten shell is going to provide more defense than steelskin, just like steelskin + Hatred (or whatever other 50% damage aura) is going to provide more offense than molten shell.

You say you tested some builds, but what you're saying is literally not possible. You cannot have 2 builds which are otherwise identical, one of which is using an extra 50% reservation damage aura, and have the DPS be even remotely similar.

It isn't a fair comparison but molten shells better anyway but honestly this isn't a new thing, molten shell has been the best guard skill since they added guard skills by a substantial margin.

The only time its not the best is if you can't use it because you aren't armour based, any other situation its pretty trivial to get its value above steelskin even if you don't run determination or invest in armour.

IC is debatable, its worse in most scenarios but if you were say low armour and wanted to survive a huge phys hit it comes out better but realistically it doesn't either.

IC is a nuke stopper, but you have to have great reflexes for it. Steelskin is fallback if your build can't accommodate anything else. MS is an armour based high performance defense, and Arcane Cloak is a lightning offensive tool as much as defensive.

Since Second Wind was castrated. I can't really argue.

Before, Immortal Call 5 charge with Enduring Cry 70% uptime was quite good.

I used it in Ultimatum and Sirus + Delirium T15, 10 mod still mostly stood still killing things.

Steel Skin was always a joke but with Defense changes and HP loss it's a lil better.
Last league I didn't even bother using a guard skill. 130Mana Immortal Call, yea, ok.

Maybe compare them on Evasion/ES builds as well? On armor builds, of course Molten Shell is the winner, this skill is part of the perks of using armor.

The "unbalanced" part is their interaction with CWDT. For some reason MS absorbs maximum damage at gem level 1, while Immortal Call/Steelskin needs to be leveled for maximum effectiveness. Also has triple duration.

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6_din_49 wrote:

Maybe compare them on Evasion/ES builds as well? On armor builds, of course Molten Shell is the winner, this skill is part of the perks of using armor.

The "unbalanced" part is their interaction with CWDT. For some reason MS absorbs maximum damage at gem level 1, while Immortal Call/Steelskin needs to be leveled for maximum effectiveness. Also has triple duration.

That's what I don't get... the idiotically short duration of Steelskin.

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kentpachi wrote:

Determination is already powerful in this league + molten shell you are literally tank god


I tested some builds that use molten shell and others that use immortal call and steelskin and i tell you, both are likely have same DPS but the survivability is 10times higher with builds that use determination + molten shell.

quickly hide this post!
Oh no... molten shell nerf is coming now...

Im expecting a nerf tbh not just for determination, but probably for iron reflexes and spell suppression too.

Either that or a fake nerf like the next endgame expansion enemies do 30% more damage than previously.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

Im expecting a nerf tbh not just for determination, but probably for iron reflexes and spell suppression too.

Either that or a fake nerf like the next endgame expansion enemies do 30% more damage than previously.

Until Determination was changed to what it is, almost no one used it. Same goes for Purity of Elements.

Spell Suppression isn't that great either. A bit too much skill point investment to get to 100% chance to suppress just for map mods to reduce your damage suppression by 20/30/40%. 100% chance to suppress 10%/13% damage... way to spend your skill points; be prepared to re-roll your maps.