reflect damage support and thorns aura
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Hi,
can we have a reflect dmg. support gem ? I was surprised it does not exist yet. Also a thorns aura we know from d2 (it was quite useless there, probably not in PoE). :) obey - consume - marry and reproduce - submit - watch t.v. - trust the internet - conform - do not question authority - sleep - buy - do not think - die __________________________________________________________________________ Force always attracts men of low morality. - Albert Einstein Last bumped on Sep 19, 2021, 1:44:25 PM
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I'm pretty sure you just described a Reckoning Gladiator.
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" No, I was talking about support gem and aura. My ssf-expedition league gladiator uses reflect damage (shield) , another amulet (below) is waiting for him too support that, he also uses riposte, I was just thinking about the above possibilities and I would like to see that. So with the mechanic of the shield alone that is an average 50.1 life per block, together with the amu it is 77.1 life per block. Would be nice to have ways to get more of that :). obey - consume - marry and reproduce - submit - watch t.v. - trust the internet - conform - do not question authority - sleep - buy - do not think - die __________________________________________________________________________ Force always attracts men of low morality. - Albert Einstein Last edited by ___Hengist___#0189 on Sep 18, 2021, 7:43:21 PM
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I think it would be cool to have some sort of thorns-centered gear, skills, and maybe even ascendancy.
Different from counterattacks which scales with damage, perhaps the thorns dps would scale with total armor/life and other stats contributing to the convert/elemental mechanics. Sadly, its very likely something like this will never be added because it promotes "passive" play which GGG is attempting to eliminate as much as possible (see minion nerfs, cwdt nerfs, trigger nerfs, etc.) Typing this out also got me thinking: why isn't there a "curse when you get hit" mechanic. Ex: "Curse enemies with x when they hit you" on gear. That would be pretty sweet too especially for melee builds. OR a ranged retaliation skill similar to a reckoning except a bow attack activated when you dodge. Last edited by jsuslak313#7615 on Sep 18, 2021, 9:39:44 PM
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I'd make it an addition to the "Steel" series of gems. Like some kind of self-impale to make you spiky :)
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You're talking about a build which does damage primarily through being attacked, which is exactly what a Reckoning Gladiator is. They're pretty solid builds for non-bossing, I used one as a Heist/Delve runner a couple leagues back. You can still kill bosses I guess, but it's not exactly ideal to have your DPS determined by when a boss feels like hitting you.
It (the build) mechanically does the exact thing you're describing (only better, which I'll get to), are you really going to say "that's not good enough because it doesn't reserve my mana?" Now, as for why Reckoning is better than Thorns (aka, the reason Thorns was trash in D2 and would still be trash in PoE). Long read, the TLDR is "because math."
Spoiler
The ratio of monster damage to life in most ARPGs is extremely different from the ratio of player damage to life. This is mostly done to keep the numbers from getting out of hand and to keep the combat engaging, but it means that any form of direct proportionate damage reflection is extremely ineffective against monsters and laughably ineffective for bosses.
The exact DPS numbers for viability is very much a subjective thing, but for argument's sake (and to make the math easier) let's say you wanted to hit one million DPS for your build to feel like it did enough damage to be playable in red maps. That means you have to be able to do one million reflected damage per second, per enemy. Even if the skill had ten thousand percent damage effectiveness (which it absolutely couldn't, because then any flat added damage would completely break the game), that still requires your build to be able to survive taking 10,000 damage per second, per enemy, after all sources of mitigation are applied because the damage absorbed by your defenses would not be reflected. And even if this were somehow possible to survive (it's not, because that 10k damage you have to take per second is still per enemy which means absolutely any pack of monsters would gib you), you still run into insurmountable issues when you get to endgame bosses. Example: the Shaper's frostbolts do about 7000 base damage each. Even at this unreasonable ten thousand percent damage effectiveness, and assuming you have zero cold resistance, you're only reflecting 700k damage back each time you're hit, which is then mitigated by his resistances. It would take somewhere between 100 and 200 of these reflected frostbolts to kill him... easily a 15-20 minute fight. Not that you'd be able to live that long in an area rapidly filling with void anomalies on a build with zero cold resistance. This is why POE abandoned that concept entirely in favor of Reckoning, Riposte, and Vengeance. Because those gems use your equipped weapon(s) and scale damage/crit chance/etc as if they were regular melee attack skills, they can actually be scaled to reasonable amounts of damage without requiring the player to sacrifice all of their defenses and run zero-resist builds. The last time I played this I used Facebreaker and I got both Reckoning and Riposte to over a million damage per hit, each, both of which could trigger more than once per second, on an incredibly tanky build with 80% block/spellblock. So, to go all the way back to the beginning: the thing you want is in the game, but better. Last edited by ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate#2605 on Sep 18, 2021, 10:15:18 PM
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As far as I understand it I deal "reflected" (not really) damage of 1-1000 with the shield, when I block - independent of incoming damage. With Amu it would be 241-1300.
There still could be support gems for that or an Aura that works similar. You seem to argue with real reflected (blocked) damage depending on the mob damage. Maybe they should have called it something different. obey - consume - marry and reproduce - submit - watch t.v. - trust the internet - conform - do not question authority - sleep - buy - do not think - die __________________________________________________________________________ Force always attracts men of low morality. - Albert Einstein Last edited by ___Hengist___#0189 on Sep 19, 2021, 1:44:52 PM
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