Non meta builds in red maps

The game just isnt fun anymore. It's impossible to progress. Have to reroll the maps 4-5 times. Run out of scouring/alchs. And when you finally get the right mods that feels easy. You end up getting rolled in a fucking clunky no room to kite/move map like sewers, losing 50% of your level in a single map.

Have the GGG playtesters even gotten to red maps? Maybe they rolling them white without any mods?

The game is now a pain in the ass, not enjoyable one bit.

The so called "40% damage nerf" was clearly one pathetic lie.

40% nerf on all suport gem ends up in an insane damage nerf.

Before nerf :

1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 759% more damage from support gems

After nerf :

1.3 * 1.3 * 1.3 * 1.3 * 1.3 = 370% more damage from support gems

Of course this a very simplified calculation but its to show that a 40% damage nerf on every single gems means a shit load more than a actual 40% damage nerf to the players since its all multiplicative.

Every single builds now deals half their damage now than they used to do. Thats not what i call a 40% damage nerf.

Instead of nerfing the few builds that scaled their damage too easily, nerf every single builds in the game!

Now the flask nerf... What a failure. It was intended to stop the piano flasking of zooming builds having 100% uptime on their flasks... Guess what? The zooming builds are the only ones unnafected by the flask nerf.

Chris said that "theyres easy way to deal with curses" What are those? Kikarazu? Atziri's Reflection? 2 ascendancies? What else? Thats bullshit. Vulnerabilty just fucks everyone up their asses. Bleeding with vuln on comes straight from the anus. Virtual hemoroids! Thanks GGG.

Oh and the whole "Flask needs to be reactive" fiasco. The hell can we react with such clusterfucks encounters? Who the hell can say in the middle of a 8 rare + 50 other mobs fight "Damn im shocked! Lets use that anti shock flask to get rid of it" Who the hell has the reaction time and some sort of eagle eye able to notice wether theyre shocked or not?

I've watched all the top streamers. Not a single one of them is using the "reactive flask approach". Theyre still piano-ing their flasks like before. Its just that now half the time theyre piano-ing... their flasks has no charges!

When the very top players of the game don't even bother playing the "reactive" aspect of the flask play, that means thats not a suitable play style.

Nobody is going to assimilate 3 different anti-ailment and a fourth one anti-curse flasks and pop them in time in the middle of a stupid thousand monsters battle. Too many flasks makes it impossible to assimilate and muscle memory when to use them at the right time, hence the piano flasking gameplay.

The simple fact you came up with some sort of auto-trigger flask currency shows how bad the flask system is. You're basically acknowledging that nobody can react fast enough to remove ailments and curses manually. Except that system is terrible because flask has more utilities than just removing ailments or curses, but we wont use them cause we need to have the charges for the next time the flasks will auto-trigger at the right time, something a human just can't do.

You want to make it work? Make it 3 flasks. One life flask. One anti-ailment+curse flask that works on all the ailments + curses. And one actual utility flask like dodge/eva/armor that is meant to be used preventively.

Reduces the amount of flasks, reduce the amount of monsters so that we know what were dealing with. Your game is a mess right now. An unenjoyable mess.

Ok and now lets talk a bit the red maps gameplay. Right now the game is so hard in red maps that you basically need to randomly use a movement skill every second, in a random direction, to minimize the odds of getting raped. Theres no reactive aspect about it. It not like we see one of the 80 monsters on screen start an animation and we react to that. The gameplay is basically shield charge (or whirl blade) once, attack 2-3 times, then charge again. Rinse and repeat. Eventually one unlucky player will charge right into a monster' telegraphed attack at random because its such a clusterfuck of visuals. I personally didn't notice the movement skill nerf except for the fact we cannot move around the map as fast as before. That nerf really didn't achieve anything in my opinion.

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Krayken wrote:

Ok and now lets talk a bit the red maps gameplay. Right now the game is so hard in red maps that you basically need to randomly use a movement skill every second, in a random direction, to minimize the odds of getting raped. Theres no reactive aspect about it. It not like we see one of the 80 monsters on screen start an animation and we react to that. The gameplay is basically shield charge (or whirl blade) once, attack 2-3 times, then charge again. Rinse and repeat. Eventually one unlucky player will charge right into a monster' telegraphed attack at random because its such a clusterfuck of visuals. I personally didn't notice the movement skill nerf except for the fact we cannot move around the map as fast as before. That nerf really didn't achieve anything in my opinion.

A next logical step to take for GGG is to tune monster damage down, decrease monster density and grant more xp per monster killed. Also because of the culmination of monster hp buffs in the past, it all feels very bloated.

Now I can mostly deal with this by going slower through maps but I have a feeling the majority doesn't have the patience for that.

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Reinhart wrote:

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Krayken wrote:

Ok and now lets talk a bit the red maps gameplay. Right now the game is so hard in red maps that you basically need to randomly use a movement skill every second, in a random direction, to minimize the odds of getting raped. Theres no reactive aspect about it. It not like we see one of the 80 monsters on screen start an animation and we react to that. The gameplay is basically shield charge (or whirl blade) once, attack 2-3 times, then charge again. Rinse and repeat. Eventually one unlucky player will charge right into a monster' telegraphed attack at random because its such a clusterfuck of visuals. I personally didn't notice the movement skill nerf except for the fact we cannot move around the map as fast as before. That nerf really didn't achieve anything in my opinion.

A next logical step to take for GGG is to tune monster damage down, decrease monster density and grant more xp per monster killed. Also because of the culmination of monster hp buffs in the past, it all feels very bloated.

Now I can mostly deal with this by going slower through maps but I have a feeling the majority doesn't have the patience for that.

If they every bring monster density down they will make their game into a hotkey MMORPG instead of a hack&slash game, you can't just do that and think you'll keep your playerbase. I'm convinced they won't do that, although I am concerned they will focus too much on boss killing. If I want to play a slowmotion game It's play Last Epoch, no need for they to degenerate their own game if you ask me. They try to battle the top 1% being too OP, but fail to realize those will always be OP and only hit the average player.

OP you have some good points

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Reinhart wrote:

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Krayken wrote:

Ok and now lets talk a bit the red maps gameplay. Right now the game is so hard in red maps that you basically need to randomly use a movement skill every second, in a random direction, to minimize the odds of getting raped. Theres no reactive aspect about it. It not like we see one of the 80 monsters on screen start an animation and we react to that. The gameplay is basically shield charge (or whirl blade) once, attack 2-3 times, then charge again. Rinse and repeat. Eventually one unlucky player will charge right into a monster' telegraphed attack at random because its such a clusterfuck of visuals. I personally didn't notice the movement skill nerf except for the fact we cannot move around the map as fast as before. That nerf really didn't achieve anything in my opinion.

A next logical step to take for GGG is to tune monster damage down, decrease monster density and grant more xp per monster killed. Also because of the culmination of monster hp buffs in the past, it all feels very bloated.

Now I can mostly deal with this by going slower through maps but I have a feeling the majority doesn't have the patience for that.

Sure thing but they need to do much more to balance the game properly.

They should make more radical changes if they really want to balance game.
Nerfing support gems or flasks globally have solved nothing.
It just benefits meta builds even more but weaker build will struggle harder.

They need to reduce big discrepancy among different builds and their power.
But it´s not possible without radical changes bcos they can´t really balance Glass canon builds doing xxx millions DPS and balanced builds doing a few millions etc.

If they really want to balance game while keeping it fun for everyone they need to do smth like that:

1)
- Add some caps or diminishing returns on action speed (faster casting, speed of any kind); movement speed; damage or DPS
and/or dividing passive tree into groups (defensive X offensive X utility) to reduce discrepancy among different builds.

- Nerfing all source of more multipliers (gems, curses, buffs such as WoC, Frostbomb etc.) to futher reduce discrepancy
i.e. Gems should have more utility focus than damage (knock back, mana/life leech, LMP/GMP vs more multipliers)

- Nerfing all recovery mechanics - Remove all instant heal (or keep it very low) and make leeching of any sort kind of luxoury and much slower ///

- Removing all kind of imunities (except CI in PVM)

- Keep rebalancing gems and other systems if needed (probably evasion systems should be nerfed too)

This was just one part how to reduce discrepancy among different players/builds.

2)
The second part should be connected with this:

- Reduce monster damage + reducing other multipliers and hit points to fit this new system (nerfing "one shots")

- Reduce monster density, their speed (it will also help with lag/fps loss)

- Nerf monster ailments (chance to inflict and effectivness of shock) - should fit the flask changes

- Reduce screen clutter and improve boss fights to be more mechanical and less DPS check etc (more telegraphed hits and less unavoidable things or on floor/on death effects ..)

- Improve loot -- I would nerf total amount of items dropped but improve their quality (affix tables based on area level = lower affixes tier shouldn´t drop on tier 16 map but on tier 1/2 should be higher chance etc.)

- If they want to focus more on campaign they should add good rewads for killing uniq monsters (bosses) --- maybe first killing should offer smth special (random uniq + currency for act bosses etc) so people would be more motivated to do the campaign with different character again.

All these changes could make game more rewarding and fun for everyone (I mean every solid build).

Just my few ideas.

GGG should tell us what´s their vision towards PoE2.

Have a nice day:)

I agree, i planned to play something fun and unusual, but after the patchnotes i was like - OK, Spectres so here we come, unusual build next league... mb...

Well nothing new that ggg completely misses their intended target with the nerfs, and as always simple players are the victims, and the meta is still OP and deletes the game.

This league is simplay play meta youtuber cookie cutter build or.. there is no or, this league there are no non-meta builds that can decently clear red maps. This is by far the worst league builds vise. While old leagues had meta favourites, but there were plenty of non-meta alternatives that you could comfortably play and enjoy the game. Now just look at builds page - there are so many dead non-meta builds that ggg decided this game needs to become diablo3 with very strict and set builds, no more room for creativity.

The best nerf is untouch any gems at two leagues who is buffed plus buff gems who don't have buffed yet. So all builds came to equal and can do same damage in others words any build can do all content. =D


What GGG say "balance" is a dead utility from gem mechanic lije they do with winter orb, molten strike, elemental hit and others nice gem that in the past was great and now is ashes.

If balance is reduce the power of gem to the ashes you GGG are doing well.
Try to do end game with some skills that you reduced to ashes and enjoy your "balanced".

This game on this stage is not fun, not playable. Everey new league we think what is next dead build that GGG will kill.

Instead nerf gem, buff mobs and leave gems like was before, maybe will best that you can do for now.

Again i say: what you say about "balance" is a pain of death and ashes to us who really played this game.

I remember that on Betrayal League's we had far more than 10 builds capable of making all game content and having similar potential with variations between classes. Now we barely have between 3 and 5 and their cost only increases but the damage dealt is not nearly what it was before.

The best nerf is untouch any gems at two leagues who is buffed plus buff gems who don't have buffed yet. So all builds came to equal and can do same damage in others words any build can do all content. =D


What GGG say "balance" is a dead utility from gem mechanic lije they do with winter orb, molten strike, elemental hit and others nice gem that in the past was great and now is ashes.

If balance is reduce the power of gem to the ashes you GGG are doing well.
Try to do end game with some skills that you reduced to ashes and enjoy your "balanced".

This game on this stage is not fun, not playable. Everey new league we think what is next dead build that GGG will kill.

Instead nerf gem, buff mobs and leave gems like was before, maybe will best that you can do for now.

Again i say: what you say about "balance" is a pain of death and ashes to us who really played this game.

I remember that on Betrayal League's we had far more than 10 builds capable of making all game content and having similar potential with variations between classes. Now we barely have between 3 and 5 and their cost only increases but the damage dealt is not nearly what it was before.

u must go minion/totem or its unplayable

It was a huge nerf for melee builds. Which sucks because melee was slowly progressing in the direction it needed to go.

I was just saying this the other day but last league i could have absolutely gotten away with using 350~ PDPS weapons in end game. This patch ? Nope. Those weapons were barely good enough for White Maps.

What was essentially a 350 PDPS weapon last league is probably the equivalent to the feel of wearing a 200 PDPS weapon this league simply based off the nerfs to the multipliers from gems.

I had a 6L Replica WOE at level 70, i went to 80 with it before giving up. On paper it looked fine but i didnt account for all the previous monster buffs in the past to damage, life, armour, etc values. Really good example of finding out for yourself.

Id love to know what people using a Paradoxcia this league think. Id imagine it doesnt feel anywhere near as strong as it did, which is funny because it was easily the most Overpowered unique next to the Saviour as far as weapons go. I feel like you absolutely need an insane weapon this league to make it feel good if youre playing a melee character, theres literally no way for you to progress if your weapon isnt good now. This patch really reminds me of the Atziri era where if you had a trash weapon then youre going no where and even if your melee character is decked out in mirror gear, youre still doing garbage damage compared to the actual top end skills.

Right now im doing a repeat of my build i did last league but making adjustments to run Pride instead of Purity, potentially using a Perfect Form as my chest piece for the Free Arctic Armour.

I never thought id say this but thus far, as a facebreaker build, it doesnt feel very hot. I never thought in my entire history playing Path of Exile "Facebreaker" and "doesnt feel good" would ever be in the same sentence.

Im marching through though. Im gonna finish my build and see how it is when its done.