Nerf Berserk, Arcane Cloak, Arcane Surge, Agnostic, Low-Life, Righteous Fire, and Fortify

Currently, there are a few mechanics/spells/buffs that give global multipliers to either a character's damage or defenses with too little cost compared to their benefits. These extremely strong effects force players to use 1 or more of these to make a "good" character with some of the best builds in the game abusing many of them at the same time. Some of these effects include Berserk, Arcane Cloak, Arcane Surge, Agnostic, Low-Life, Righteous Fire, and Fortify.

These mechanics/spells/buffs essentially give characters a 8/9/10 link worth of damage for sometimes very little investment. I believe nerfing these mechanics/spells/buffs would help build diversity.

When it comes to Fortify, I feel hardcore players are forced to stack Fortify effect as it is 10x better than any other mechanic as it gives damage reduction across everything, while its competitor stats only protect against either phys, elemental, damage over time, chaos, etc.

Here is a list of changes I brainstormed over a short period of time just to start the conversation. Yes, some of them are big nerfs.


nerf berserk by removing the more damage with attack
nerf berserk helm enchant by 50%
rework divergent berserk to convert more attack speed to more cast speed.

nerf arcane cloak to spend 50% mana. Make taken from buff scale from 60-80%.
nerf arcane cloak helm enchant by 50%

nerf effect of added damage on many spells. maximum should be 150%. add damage to base amount to compensate. (Arcane cloak gives so much flat added damage)

nerf agnostic from 20% mana to 10% mana

nerf lowlife more spell dmg from 30% to 20%

nerf global arcane surge spell damage from 20% to 10%

nerf righteous fire to have 20% more spell for all levels

remove fortify effect on gear
remove fortify effect from all current passives
make a new fortify and fortify effect passive cluster opposite on the tree to the dodge/spell dodge cluster


Please don't destroy my suggestions too much in the comments as I know you are likely using 1 or more of these extremely strong mechanics in your current build.

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Anton___Chigurh wrote:

Spoiler

Currently, there are a few mechanics/spells/buffs that give global multipliers to either a character's damage or defenses with too little cost compared to their benefits. These extremely strong effects force players to use these 1 or more of these to make a "good" character with some of the best builds in the game abusing many of them at the same time. Some of these effects include Berserk, Arcane Cloak, Arcane Surge, Agnostic, Low-Life, Righteous Fire, and Fortify.

These mechanics/spells/buffs essentially give characters a 8/9/10 link worth of damage for sometimes very little investment. I believe nerfing these mechanics/spells/buffs would help build diversity.

When it comes to Fortify, I feel hardcore players are forced to stack Fortify effect as it is 10x better than any other mechanic as it gives damage reduction across everything, while it's competitor stats only protect against either phys, elemental, damage over time, chaos, etc.

Here is a list of changes I brainstormed over a short period of time just to start the conversation. Yes, some of them are big nerfs.


nerf berserk by removing the more damage with attack
nerf berserk helm enchant by 50%
rework divergent berserk to convert more attack speed to more cast speed.

nerf arcane cloak to spend 50% mana. Make taken from buff scale from 60-80%.
nerf arcane cloak helm enchant by 50%

nerf effect of added damage on many spells. maximum should be 150%. add damage to base amount to compensate. (Arcane cloak gives so much flat added damage)

nerf agnostic from 20% mana to 10% mana

nerf lowlife more spell dmg from 30% to 20%

nerf global arcane surge spell damage from 20% to 10%

nerf righteous fire to have 20% more spell for all levels

remove fortify effect on gear
remove fortify effect from all current passives
make a new fortify and fortify effect passive cluster opposite on the tree to the dodge/spell dodge cluster


Please don't destroy my suggestions too much in the comments as I know you are likely using 1 or more of these extremely strong mechanics in your current build.

Not going to "destroy" anything, I'll just merely remind you that Fortify effect and actually, Fortify as "great as it is" still reduces ATTACK DAMAGE ONLY, so it's already inefficient against all kind of SPELL DAMAGE AND DoT...

Fortify effect could use a value adjustment - why don't TencentGGG properly implement "diminishing" returns regarding various mechanics is beyond me, as that would be a better solution - but it's hardly a "one stop for all"...

Nerfing defences on a game already plagued with stupid one shot mechanics is a great way to lose the rest of the player base.

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

Not going to "destroy" anything, I'll just merely remind you that Fortify effect and actually, Fortify as "great as it is" still reduces ATTACK DAMAGE ONLY, so it's already inefficient against all kind of SPELL DAMAGE AND DoT...

Fortify effect could use a value adjustment - why don't TencentGGG properly implement "diminishing" returns regarding various mechanics is beyond me, as that would be a better solution - but it's hardly a "one stop for all"...

I think you are confusing Fortify with Evasion. Fortify works against hits, no matter the source.


@OP having strong defense mechanics in the game is fine and also necessary given the extremely high monsterdamage. Removing the best defense mechanics would only amplefy the tendency of players to just build high dps glass cannons and then whine about oneshots. None of the mechanics you mention strikes me as too strong, they all have major downsides or require significant investment to become powerful to compensate for their power.

yeah..

'one point wonders' they call them. and they are indeed wonders.

on one hand, you use them because this game simply DEMANDS defences, on the other - you use them because they are pretty much free and much better than alternatives

you know this stat: Evasion? you can get it from aura and from gear. it takes a lot of investment to get into 2/3 hits miss territory. or you can use Sand Stance + one abyss jewel with blind to get the same effect. endgame bosses ignore your evasion anyway.

same with armour: stacking it makes sense only with Transcedence, otherwise it is pure waste of prefixes and passives. or you can get 'phys as ele' + endurance charges + fortify and never worry about it

one-point-wonders are major factors in current power creep. if what previously took 15 passives of investment now can be had with 3 - where these 12 extra passives go? into moar powah! builds that DONT use these tricks pretty much never show up on ladders or in guides because they simply suck (in comparison). you get fixed number of gear slots, passives and support gems. if you WASTE 12 passives your build simply cannot rival with someone who is efficient

one-point-wonders are no brainer choices. this patch introduced new one (Pious Path, Inquisitor) but it at least requires SOME investment.


out of the listed ones the most outrageous are mana related ones. GGG clearly overf..did the 'mana rework' making it THE BEST way of playing pretty much anything. best aremour? mana stacker. best ES? mana stacker. best damage? archmage mana stacker. best buffer? arcane cloak mana stacker

effort to set it up? minimal. GGG made sure mana stackers is a build on rails, you cannot fail. uniques are cheap and gear.. kinda is cheap too.

Agnostic/Arcane Surge/Arcane Cloak is a sustain mechanic that makes life melee builds cry. life based builds cannot even dream of such sustain - yet casters get 'melee only' fortify without a hassle. even berserk is no longer melee only (one of the WORST Heist's additions btw)

in short - nerf that or make it expensive. because it is FAR too late to make 'regular' defences worthwhile. Armour was deemed thrash (and rightfully so) in 2013 already..

hahahaha OP thinks hes a balance guy

Why is Transcendence the most broken Keystone of them all not in the list?

And lul @ Berserk nerf. If anything the mana regen related Keystone Chainbreaker needs fixing but not a global nerf to Berserk for people who use it the way it was intended orginally.

"

sidtherat wrote:

in short - nerf that or make it expensive. because it is FAR too late to make 'regular' defences worthwhile. Armour was deemed thrash (and rightfully so) in 2013 already..

They could buff armour and evasion mechanic-wise to make them more viable. I don't see why those other defenses need to be nerfed in a game with paper defenses already.

I mean, isn't it kinda hard to stack all of different defense types on a single char, so buffing these overlooked things would give players more actual options to go for?

I've been playing with 20/20 Grace aura and it does feel lacking for all the investment put in. It's kinda sad.

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

Spoiler

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

Not going to "destroy" anything, I'll just merely remind you that Fortify effect and actually, Fortify as "great as it is" still reduces ATTACK DAMAGE ONLY, so it's already inefficient against all kind of SPELL DAMAGE AND DoT...

Fortify effect could use a value adjustment - why don't TencentGGG properly implement "diminishing" returns regarding various mechanics is beyond me, as that would be a better solution - but it's hardly a "one stop for all"...

I think you are confusing Fortify with Evasion. Fortify works against hits, no matter the source.


@OP having strong defense mechanics in the game is fine and also necessary given the extremely high monsterdamage. Removing the best defense mechanics would only amplefy the tendency of players to just build high dps glass cannons and then whine about oneshots. None of the mechanics you mention strikes me as too strong, they all have major downsides or require significant investment to become powerful to compensate for their power.

My bad, wanted to say hits, and that will include spell damage too, though a lot of spell damage relies on DoTs.

The point still remains as Fortify has a weakness versus all damage dealt that DOESN'T HIT, so DoTs are it's direct "counter"...

My last most played build was self made archmage with all here listed mana stuff, but i cant give good feedback on it since i havent done full research on poe ninja and stuff, however there seems to be quite a lot of mana stackers indeed.
Most outrageous mana thing for me is that instant mana flask (Foreboding) which bypasses all investment into recovery.

But its not the reason im posting, the reason is that i dont agree with your wish to nerf righteus fire.
RF is really bad by default, if your build is using it then its pretty bad, i mean map mods, build is screwed by no regen, less regen, reduced max res and Maven recovery debuff, you dont need to nerf it further.