how does double damage work?

I'm using Heavy Strike with a Two-Handed weapon and Weight of the Empire that gives Heavy Strike a 20% chance for double damage. I go on Path of Building and fiddle around with the settings and I'm only seeing at most a 20% increase in damage. WTF???

I calculated a 48% chance of double damage happening (I use 2 WoftE). In terms of DPS, this should be a 48% increase in damage, at least that's what I expected.

So how does double damage work??? Anyone know?

For example, to keep things simple, pretend I've got no armor on and no shield. My equipped weapon is a Karui Maul (112–168 base damage). The strength requirement for the Maul is 182. I have 250 strength. Pretend I have infinite mana. Also pretend I have one node, Mace Damage, that gives 14% increased damage to maces.

I ONLY have a level 1 Heavy Strike socketed. I use Heavy Strike.

How is the damage calculated?

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I'm not clear how you got the 48% chance, or which numbers got you confused on how this work. If you share a PoB or at least some numbers, we might be able to help.

Heavy Strike has a base of 20% chance to do double damage. With 2 WotE jewels, it has 60% chance to do double damage. Taking out one of the jewels, reduce the chance to do double damage from 60% to 40% - certainly it's not a 20% damage loss.

Double Damage (or Triple Damage) is the chance for your hit to deal double (or triple) the damage it should deal. By "damage it should deal" it's meant the damage after every other modifiers have been calculated - included CritMulti.

Since it's a probability modifier, it means:
> Chance to Deal Double Damage is additive
> Chance to Deal Double Damage cannot go over 100% (it would be pointless anyway).

Usually, characters do not have a way to deal double damage by nature. Heavy Strike is an example of skill with a native Double Damage: 20%. Coincidentally, it also has a Threshold Jewel that further raise this Double Damage. As 6_din_49 said, using 2 of those Threshold and Heavy Strike you will end up with 20+20+20 = 60% chance to deal double damage with Heavy Strike. A way for you to reach 100% Chance to Deal Double Damage from there can be:

> use a Meatgrinder 2H Mace (5%) with a Veiled modifier "+x% Chance to Deal Double Damage" with a roll of 12%
> Allocate Kinetic Impacts (4%)
> Equip yourself a Redeemer-Influenced ILvl84 Amulet with a "+10% chance to deal double damage if you have stunned an enemy recently" (you can make it work against bosses by either using skills that always stun like Vaal Ground Slam, or by using Writhing Jar to summon monsters from nothing)
> Equip yourself with an helmet with a Eternal enchantment for Heavy Strike for 12% chance for Double Damage

With all of this you would have 60+5+12+4+12 = 93% Chance for Double Damage, that becomes 103% (as in, 100%) if you have stunned an enemy recently

The calculation I used for getting 48% comes from probability theory of events occurring simultaneously, in this case 3 separate events occurring:

- 20% chance of double damage occuring from Heavy Strike;
- 20% chance of double damage occurring from the 1st Weight of the Empire jewel;
- 20% chance of double damage occurring from the 2nd jewel.

For this example my probablity for those three separate chances to get double damage is [1 - (.8 * .8 *.8)]. If Heavy Strike chance were 30% and the first jewel was 10% and the second jewel was 80%, then the chance for double damagewould be [1-(.70 * .90 * .20)]

Maxtrux, you seem to be impling that the damage increase is 60% (after all other other damage calculations are done). Path of Building is only showing me about 20% damage increase. I can only assume that Double Damage is only applied to the base damage of the weapon.

I was hoping to get confirmation of that. My paste bin is https://pastebin.com/KEcFEAQz. I'm currently reworking my build.

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jelf72 wrote:

Maxtrux, you seem to be impling that the damage increase is 60% (after all other other damage calculations are done).

No, that's not what I've said or implied.

Suppose you are wielding a Trypanon (100% Chance to Crit).
You are using a Lv11 Heavy Strike (Damage Effectiveness 200%), you have a 100% Increased Physical Damage, 100% More Physical Damage and a Crit Multiplier of 200%.
You also have a 60% Chance to deal double damage with that Heavy Strike

Assume you Overwhelm 100% Physical Resistance (in other words, do not consider enemy's natural Armour rating or any other effect that lowers Physical damage taken)

You hit the enemy for 100 Base physical damage.
This 100 base is first multiplied for the Increased Physical damage: 100 + (100*1) = 200
Then, the 200 is multiplied for the More physical damage: 200 + (200*1) = 400
Now, this is where we deduce if the hit is going to be critical or not. Since we use Trypanon, we have 100% chance to crit, for a 200% Crit Multi. So, we have: 400 * 2 = 800

Now, there is a 40% chance you will just deal 800 damage, and there is a 60% chance you actually deal 1600 damage (double).
The tooltip has to consider this for the average damage. So, your Heavy Strike for 100 damage will have an actual tooltip of:

((800 * 0.4) + (1600 * 0.6)) = (320+960) = 1280

My calculation is based on the Wikia's statement on the Double Damage page:

"

The damage increase is applied after all other modifiers.[1]

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The formula you have used to calculate the double damage is not how More/Less multiplier works, or how binary condictions on hit (for example, Chance to Blind on Hit) or avoidance works - in those cases, the chance for that outcomes to happen will add themselves up. If you have 2 nodes on your Passive that grants you 60% chance to avoid Blind and 40% chance to avoid Blind, then you will never get Blind. Similiarly, if your Fireball has a 70% chance to Ignite and you put a Combustion support for an addictional 40% chance to ignite, then your Fireball will always ignite.


The only exception for your kind of calculation, albeit unrelated on your statistic theory, is how "Less Damage Taken" works. In that case, and only in that case, values will not "add" each and every single source of Less Damage Taken - in other words, Fortify, Kintsugi and Wind Dancer all together will not give you 60% less damage taken, but rather (((1*0.8)*0.8)*0.8) = 48% Less Damage Taken

For your build, looks about right.

No WotE jewels: 30k dps
1 WotE jewel: 35k dps
2 WotE jewels: 40k dps

So you have 25k base average damage, and 5k dps per 20% chance to do double damage.

25k * 0.2 = 5k (5k dmg per 20% chance to do double damage)

6_Din_49

Sorry i gave you the wrong pastebin code. that code is for helping me with my build.

But continuing on, where did you get the 5k damage from? I looked at the pastebin and don't see it listed. Same with the 25k.

In the Calc screen, on the MH Hit Damage entry under "Heavy Strike setup (a bad idea)" the damage is 25.2k - 38.9k of physical damage. is this the 25k base you are referring to?

oh i've been playing for a few years, but its only been in 2020 that i tried to make my own builds. So i kinda know nothing or at least, i know now that i know nothing about POE.

Yes, I took the one with "Bad Idea", saw it has 30k average damage, then added the two WotE jewels, one at a time. Since a jewel increase the average damage by ~5k, I substracted 5k from 30k to get the average damage without chance to do double damage (this is how I got the 25k, as the skill has 20% chance to do double damage by default).