I Think I Figured Out Why Cyberpunk Sux

I'm going to be concise here:

CDPR's exceptional reputation came from the good will which resulted from the excellent Witcher series. Witcher was built on the Red Engine. It was a very good engine back in the Witcher days wasn't it? I imagine that the people inside of CDPR were feeling themselves over how great their engine was. They probably even felt like if they really really wanted to that they were capable of making the world's best and most advanced game engine... perhaps even better than Epic's Unreal Engine. Hrm.... interesting...

You see after Witcher, but before Cyberpunk, CDPR was on top of the world. Where else to go but up? Why WOULDN'T they dream of becoming the next Valve or Epic Games? Where their economic future was tied into the well being of the whole entire industry itself rather than on how fickle and unpredictable fans happened to receive their next game on the horizon.

This is why they decided to leverage their sterling reputation upon a scheme... a scheme to raise funds that they could pour into Red Engine's development - so they could license the engine out the same way that Epic does with Unreal. To borrow a phrase from Merveil, this scheme was built upon the promise of a LIE, a lie they decided to call Cyberpunk 2077.

All of that 100 million of development cost was not put on game play, story, or AI or physics or music or anything. It was all put on the develpoment of Red Engine. Cyberpunk was just an empty husk from teh very beginning. A model home if you will. With no family or heart inside of it.

I believe that this is why the greedy investors are suing CDPR. Because they realized that they were promised a game, but all they really got was a game engine. Nevermind the ridonkulous profits, they have their pride (and greed) to defend don't they.

Anyway Cyberpunk is an incomplete game. Just look at the comparisons of it to RDR II and GTA V. It's alarming. I want a refund honestly. But if you enjoy it go ahead.

Merry Christmas!

1. It was never gonna live up to the hype.

2. They should have never developed it for Ps4, Xbone, and Stadia, but likely the board members wanted that cheddar.

3. 8 million preorders and nearly 14 million copies sold...it doesnt even matter what the reviews are, or edgy takes from game "reviewers".

4. The original Witcher wasnt that great, and subsequently got much better. I think Cyberpunk will get better in general.

Just thoughts in general on this. Disclaimer: I don't own nor plan to own the game.

No "investor" would sue a company so early in this phase of a product release. I read a short article about some dude filing a "class action" suite against CDPR alleging some kind of fraud/lies/whatsists... I have no clue who he's claiming are supposed to be the co-complaintants. Elves, probably...

I guess he's hoping that some people will jump on board and that will convince CDPR to settle for mucho-monies rather than go to court. IMO, it's a worthless lawsuit. It's accepted practice these days for games to be patched, fixed, made working, evolving into what's hoped to be a "good game." He and his co-complaintants can go pound sand.

"RedEngine_XX" could, one supposes, be a "licensed game engine." Plenty of little-known engines have done that. BUT... to compete with the "Big Two-and-a-half" Engines out there, it'd have to have very favorable contractual obligations/fees for developers considering the other engines and their fairly generous margins, especially for indie/small devs. (I don't count "Crysis" as it's now Amazon's and who the F knows wtf they're doing with their Boneyard/whatever property other than camping out at Chris Roberts's house... Also, Plenty of people dev for Unity, but I doubt any of them actually enjoy doing so. UE4 and 5 will be the engines of choice for FPS ARPG/other games for awhile, yet.)

That CDPR may have failed to make a "good game" is... not news. Plenty of games are not good ones, despite the hype. That's really what makes or breaks a title as long as it's halfway decent - Player hype. If hype can be sustained, it's a "good game." If not, it fades into obscurity. (How in the heck did "Fortnight" manage what it has without tremendous helpings of hype? It's... @$$. The only reason, IMO, it beat out some competitors in that new genre was because it wasn't outrageously glitchy and broken like they were.)

If there is subpar gameplay in whatever eventually makes it into Cyberpunk 2077, the blame rests directly on the shoulders of the developers of the game, regardless of anything they may have worked on behind the scenes. Plenty of devs have managed to juggle multiple projects without totally crapping the bed.

PS: All the anti-hype will be gone pretty soon. Teh interwebz, despite its protestations, has a shot memory. Only truly anti-games keep their profane status, like "Battlecruiser 3000" by "He Who Must Not Be Named"...

I once got into a lot of trouble online for dissing Unity lol. But you're probably safe here. But anyway Cyberpunk is worse than bad... it's not a bad open world game. It simply IS NOT OPEN WORLD TO BEGIN WITH. It's like a racing game without cars. It doesn't qualify to be what it claims it is.

And I think the class action suit or whatever has to do with the fact that the investor's money (in my theory anyway) was used to develop an engine rather than a game. And now the investors will only get money from the sale of this husk of a game. And they will be completley left out of whatever CDPR manages to get from licensing Red Engine.

So they want their cut. That's my theory. Yup.

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BearCares wrote:

But anyway Cyberpunk is worse than bad... it's not a bad open world game. It simply IS NOT OPEN WORLD TO BEGIN WITH. It's like a racing game without cars. It doesn't qualify to be what it claims it is.

TBH, this right here leads me to believe you haven't even played the game. Or if you have, you didn't play it nearly enough to know what you're talking about. Or maybe you disliked it so much for whatever reasons, and there are plenty of valid reasons, that you're making up stuff to trash it rather than coming up with something legitimate.

It may not be quite as expansive as some other open world games in terms of horizontal land mass and going from one end of the "world" to the other (though it's close to some, and surpasses many if you include the Badlands rather than just Night City). When you add in all the intricacy and complexity of the vertical layers of the world though, no other game really comes close. Some may surpass it in one way or the other, but when looking at it from all angles and all levels it's no contest. It's straight up massive heh.

I do have plenty of complaints about the game myself. It's got a laundry list of problems and more than its fair share of shortcomings (most of which should thankfully be very fixable, at least on PC, and hopefully sooner than later). But if you're really convinced it's not open world or just want to convince others of that because reasons, well, we must have been playing entirely different versions of the game.

It's a linear narrative with some side missions sprinkled about. That doesn't make it an open world game. Not by modern standards. Maybe by 1995 standards though.

If the world is open then there has to be persistence in regards to the consequences that result from the player's actions. When NPCs regularly and arbitrarily pop into and out of existence then it is no longer an open world game by my definition.

Bugsnax was more of an open world game than Cyberpunk 2077.

In an open world game the world has to FUNCTION. It's got to function and REACT to what the player does. This world does not function. It tells its story like an interactive pop up book and that's what it does. It's not an open world game just because the map is big. By your definition PUBG is an open world game.

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Morkonan wrote:

No "investor" would sue a company so early in this phase of a product release. I read a short article about some dude filing a "class action" suite against CDPR alleging some kind of fraud/lies/whatsists... I have no clue who he's claiming are supposed to be the co-complaintants. Elves, probably...

I guess he's hoping that some people will jump on board and that will convince CDPR to settle for mucho-monies rather than go to court. IMO, it's a worthless lawsuit. It's accepted practice these days for games to be patched, fixed, made working, evolving into what's hoped to be a "good game." He and his co-complaintants can go pound sand.

its about the release, though.
the investors and market were clearly lied to about what this game was, included, how ready it was, etc.

devs are trying to save face IMO by screaming out the way they are.

i imagine they have a pretty good case for fraud depending what was presented to them and when. doesn't matter if the game gets fixed eventually or not, it matters how it was released compared to how it was presented to the investors.

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BearCares wrote:

It's a linear narrative with some side missions sprinkled about. That doesn't make it an open world game. Not by modern standards. Maybe by 1995 standards though.

If the world is open then there has to be persistence in regards to the consequences that result from the player's actions. When NPCs regularly and arbitrarily pop into and out of existence then it is no longer an open world game by my definition.

Bugsnax was more of an open world game than Cyberpunk 2077.

In an open world game the world has to FUNCTION. It's got to function and REACT to what the player does. This world does not function. It tells its story like an interactive pop up book and that's what it does. It's not an open world game just because the map is big. By your definition PUBG is an open world game.

Maybe your definition of an "open world" is simply quite narrow. It is very much an open world game in the areas you mention as well, not just in terms of map size.

Elder Scrolls games have a linear narrative that you can follow through from beginning to end, take your time following while spending time sidetracked exploring or whatever, or largely ignore it as much as possible and just focus on the whatever. It "pops up" as you do different things and encounter different NPC's and situations. Witcher 3? GTA? RDR? Fallout? CBP 2077? Yep, yep, yep, yep and yep with their own variations, with each one pushing you to follow their linear narratives to different degrees (which you can still largely ignore until you choose not to).

The outcome of their narratives may be more open-ended in some cases, but they're still limited if you choose to follow them through to their conclusions. And just like many other open world games, you do have an awful lot of freedom to get up to all kinds of no good in CBP that have nothing to do with and no impact on the narrative or the world at large.

And I feel like some of the randomness of many of the interactions and experiences is even more "open" than too many things being forcibly reactive to "you" personally as a character. Having everything be blatantly reactive to you and your actions, as some other games are, would make the world feel smaller to me.

Night City is a huge, sprawling city that largely doesn't give a shit about you. Good, bad--you're just another augmented person with a gun. Or a shock baton. Or a katana. Or whatever. The random authorities should care a whole lot more than they do, and the fact that they don't is a glaring issue. You do build up your cred which affects your interactions with those it's relevant to, but the random NPC's and everyday people? Not so much, and that's the way it should be in this game world, I think.

There's a certain realism to that which isn't quite captured by many other games. Densely populated cities in the real world, particularly over here in Asia, are very much like that. You're another face in a sea of faces, going about the same business any number of those other faces are going about in their own ways.

You are, for all intents and purposes, forgettable to nearly everyone you encounter. Even more so if the things you do aren't out of the ordinary wherever you happen to be. Random people pop into and out of existence around you all the time, and from their perspective you randomly pop into and out of existence to them.

Whether that is truly by design in CBP or a result of the myriad of technical flaws the game has is hard to say definitively. I'm of the thinking it is by design to at least some extent, given just how much of the aesthetics of Night City are clearly based on real-world locales and culture. There are definitely technical limitations to just how "random" it can realistically be without being repeated, identical randomness though--and it definitely does show the more you play. That's definitely an aspect of the game that CDPR way overhyped and clearly dropped the ball on.

TL;DR: Your idea of open sounds awfully closed to me, and I couldn't disagree with you more.

Well, you are completely wrong. The sheer amount of quests and things you can read can be overwhelming. They definitely put money and time into all this. In fact some complaints point out that there is TOO MUCH dialogue which also goes against your assumption. Whether it is good is your business but its there.

Also this part

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If the world is open then there has to be persistence in regards to the consequences that result from the player's actions. When NPCs regularly and arbitrarily pop into and out of existence then it is no longer an open world game by my definition.

Its called street cred. If you have high enough street cred there will be more opportunities offered to you. Also, close allies will contact you if you've done a job for them and give you further work which goes against what you just said. Your actions did have consequences - opening up new game experiences.

Well some people are just more easily fooled than others. Skyrim is an open world game because the NPCs were persistent. I'm not saying their AI and memories were perfect. But they had jobs. They had schedules. They had custom dialogue and they handed out missions.

And now we have one guy in this thread calling it open world because of how impartial the world is toward the main character. And another who says that Street Cred is the reason the game qualifies to be called an open world game. Well which is it? Is the world caring about your exploits or not?

Well whatever. Skyrim was an open world game, but it was still terrible. I suppose those millions of people who loved Skyrim will also love Cyberpunk so enjoy yourselves. :)

I mean it. Have fun ^^