Alternate Art not usable anywhere but standard is just silly

Alternate art, some of the most attractive designs in the game, aren't available in new leagues? That is just missing the boat drastically.

For anyone that plays leagues exclusively, your work is then lost. That seems massively off point. Then....

I would suspect the reasoning for this is ... *looks at shop button* MTX sales? Even still, the amount of Alt Art has a cap on it, and some of them are gone forever on accounts that don't play any longer.

At least making it available as a skin transfer, would generate some income for GGG and allow for the skins to actually be used in leagues.

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LumpsIsHigh wrote:

Alternate art, some of the most attractive designs in the game, aren't available in new leagues? That is just missing the boat drastically.

For anyone that plays leagues exclusively, your work is then lost. That seems massively off point. Then....

I would suspect the reasoning for this is ... *looks at shop button* MTX sales? Even still, the amount of Alt Art has a cap on it, and some of them are gone forever on accounts that don't play any longer.

At least making it available as a skin transfer, would generate some income for GGG and allow for the skins to actually be used in leagues.

If they ever do sell a permanent MTX skin transfer they would also need to sell ALL of the old alt art items in the MTX store including demigods as skins. (so, um... not very likely) otherwise hoarders will buy all the old crap up in standard (probably already have to a degree) and resell them for cash and would be directly competing with GGG's MTX. (aka their business model)

...

Fun story time anyone?

GGG was about to actually do this a few years ago, at least I remember Chris talking about it as if it was 'going to happen' on one of the podcasts he did back then. I protested as loudly as I could, wrote to support and Chris directly trying to explain why this was a bad move for them. (and myself, as a player I DID used to race and won many alt-art items, but I deleted them because I took them out of the temp stash and used them in a season and after that they were worthless because I never play in standard and cross league trades are forbidden) - I was not alone either.

By them making a 'reward' that's worthless (to those that only play challenge leagues at least) and then years later - after the fact making a skin transfer option that would make these 'worthless' items suddenly worth many 100's+ of dollars each or more creates a serious cascade of problems. Some collectors were already hoarding these in anticipation - some of those people stood to become very rich (in game at least and maybe IRL, RMT is alive and kicking unfortunately) and many others who actually earned those rare items are blindsided because they gave them away thinking they were worthless... and they were... to them at the time.

After all that, nothing changed - so I wrote to GGG again and this time I demanded they delete my account. (I was a diamond supporter, and had about $1500 of other packs on it as well) Eventually they figured out what I was telling them - and they thanked me for it. I had them delete my account anyway since I stick to my principals. they offered to move my supporter packs to a different account that I don't use, and they did. (so, good on them, I guess...)

TLDR: you can probably blame me at least in part for this not happening

I really don't understand your point.

They don't HAVE to sell all the old art. The point of them was a reward during a time frame. A time frame I didn't even play in, so I have no skin in this game. I had the chance to obtain an alternate art item, but then was told about this fact. So getting them seems pointless without being able to use them.

At the VERY least, the skins should be available on the accounts that earned them. Non-transferable. They worked for them, shouldn't they get to use them? We get rewards now that carry over.

The points about deleting them or trading them/giving them away are valid. That is a problem that cannot be correct now. It seems silly that it was ever not allowed to be used again.

I wouldn't mind if the alt art became MTX rewards instead so you can use them in any league. For cases like jewellery and items that don't have 3D art, they could be applied to overwrite the 2D art of the item instead.

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Zee wrote:

Fun story time anyone?

GGG was about to actually do this a few years ago, at least I remember Chris talking about it as if it was 'going to happen' on one of the podcasts he did back then. I protested as loudly as I could, wrote to support and Chris directly trying to explain why this was a bad move for them. (and myself, as a player I DID used to race and won many alt-art items, but I deleted them because I took them out of the temp stash and used them in a season and after that they were worthless because I never play in standard and cross league trades are forbidden) - I was not alone either.

By them making a 'reward' that's worthless (to those that only play challenge leagues at least) and then years later - after the fact making a skin transfer option that would make these 'worthless' items suddenly worth many 100's+ of dollars each or more creates a serious cascade of problems. Some collectors were already hoarding these in anticipation - some of those people stood to become very rich (in game at least and maybe IRL, RMT is alive and kicking unfortunately) and many others who actually earned those rare items are blindsided because they gave them away thinking they were worthless... and they were... to them at the time.

After all that, nothing changed - so I wrote to GGG again and this time I demanded they delete my account. (I was a diamond supporter, and had about $1500 of other packs on it as well) Eventually they figured out what I was telling them - and they thanked me for it. I had them delete my account anyway since I stick to my principals. they offered to move my supporter packs to a different account that I don't use, and they did. (so, good on them, I guess...)

TLDR: you can probably blame me at least in part for this not happening

I am glad you shared this story. I never knew. But I do have some comments.

When GGG introduced Race Season 1, it was mentioned by Chris himself that these alternate art items would become very valuable in the future because of their limited edition. So they were never really worthless to begin with. And as a matter of fact I cant remember anyone giving these away for free except for myself. I have a bit of the feeling that you just became jealous because you gave them away and they increased in value so much over the years.

Everyone hoards any kind of item that goes legacy. That applies to alt art items, relics, legacy implicits, legacy quant, legacy ES, ... I believe it is only a very small percentage of the playerbase that uses these for RMT. I don't see any cascade of problems here with certain items going up in value. IF the story that you told us, is true, then we will never see a mechanic (cross-league skin) as ZiggyD envisioned happen ingame. That is actually kinda sad.

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Reinhart wrote:

I am glad you shared this story. I never knew. But I do have some comments.

When GGG introduced Race Season 1, it was mentioned by Chris himself that these alternate art items would become very valuable in the future because of their limited edition. So they were never really worthless to begin with. And as a matter of fact I cant remember anyone giving these away for free except for myself. I have a bit of the feeling that you just became jealous because you gave them away and they increased in value so much over the years.

Everyone hoards any kind of item that goes legacy. That applies to alt art items, relics, legacy implicits, legacy quant, legacy ES, ... I believe it is only a very small percentage of the playerbase that uses these for RMT. I don't see any cascade of problems here with certain items going up in value. IF the story that you told us, is true, then we will never see a mechanic (cross-league skin) as ZiggyD envisioned happen ingame. That is actually kinda sad.

I remember Chris saying something like that too - it was non-specific and FAR from 'someday you can convert it to a exclusive reusable MTX in all future leagues' - especially when they WERE AREALDY GIVING OUT FREE MTX SKINS... I mean, if they indented these to be reusable MTX why didn't they just give them out as skins then?

also, they are still quite collectable in standard? I'm assuming?

Here is another one of those cascades... cross league trades:

If 99% of all the available alt art items are in standard, then that means that if I want them, and I will, I better go buy some standard currency? (I'm a HC only player and delete all items and characters when they go to standard) or I have to pay real money? I'd bet an old demigod would fetch a few mirrors in value at least ---> if people DO set up a RMT website to sell these alt art items (and they will, already do that for other games) how is GGG going to police that? its not even 'pay to win', nobody would report it or care, as its not an advantage - and the items would be outright cooler and uniquely exclusive! no doubt 100x more in demand then what GGG themselves sell.

so for example, lets say I find a HH in HC challenge league what am I going to do with it?

1) trade it for EX's and deck out my character with godly gear (that is all lost as soon as I rip, and if not, its lost/worthless at the end of the season)

2) far better to do a cross-league trade with someone in standard who has an alt-art item I want! then its a permanent item I can use going forward forever.

3) see this pattern? ALL you need is to be rich in standard league and you can transfer your wealth straight to a new challenge league. (because now people in challenge leagues will want items in standard)

that IS actually cheating.


hey I DO agree it kind of sucks, sad or not, I think its a bad move for GGG and that's all really. (as someone who donated plenty of money to them early on, I do want what's best for them and the game- and yes it was a donation IMO) They can do whatever they want of course! but I would bet large bills I'd be proven right in short order.

All of this could work okay still, if GGG just cuts off the cross league trade and RMT by selling the same MTX (even if its LOTS of GGG GOLD)in their store. OR, if they allow it, but ONLY if the item was never removed from the original players temp stash... (but we were never told we should keep them there) so that's problematic too.

There is very little they can do here without it being very unfair to those who earned the items those who will want the items, and in the process wildly enriching hoarders in standard and give them power over the new challenge leagues.

I didn't know the cross league trades were deemed an actual issue. I mean people kill off characters holding maps or whatever to use in standard from HC to test fights etc.

@Zee

Although it is forbidden, this cross-league trading can in theory be done with any item in standard that is being hoarded. RMT shops can be set up selling any kind of item, be it relics, mirrored items, ... The issue you mention is not something specific to alt art items.

So I guess the fear for this illegal cross-league trading, means alt art items will stay in permanent leagues forever.

What if I propose that GGG adds bench mtx (like mannequins) for your hideout where you can put an item in, that then displays it's 3D art? Would you be fine with such an idea?


If you are actually dead serious about obtaining alt art items and you are a hardcore player, you do not need to gather a treasure hoard on standard but instead I advice you to have a talk with Broccolini.

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Reinhart wrote:

Although it is forbidden, this cross-league trading can in theory be done with any item in standard that is being hoarded. RMT shops can be set up selling any kind of item, be it relics, mirrored items, ... The issue you mention is not something specific to alt art items.

So I guess the fear for this illegal cross-league trading, means alt art items will stay in permanent leagues forever.

What if I propose that GGG adds bench mtx (like mannequins) for your hideout where you can put an item in, that then displays it's 3D art? Would you be fine with such an idea?


If you are actually dead serious about obtaining alt art items and you are a hardcore player, you do not need to gather a treasure hoard on standard but instead I advice you to have a talk with Broccolini.

I do not own any currently, as I did not play when they were available. Whether or not I wind up with some, is a different matter. Honestly, for the sake of those who DID earn them directly, I would have hoped GGG would have given them a way to use them, if even just locked on their account.

My mistake if I wasn't clear but I was actually referring to Zee with my last sentence.