New league mechanics in low level PoE content

As the new league approaches, looking very promising and likely resulting in the biggest number of new players ever, I would like to point the designers towards an issue that has been affecting new players in the recent leagues. There is still plenty of time to fix it before Dec 7.

I'm talking about the balance of the low level content and the effects of introducing new league mechanics.

- Chris Wilson is famously quoted saying that most of the new PoE players never make it even to Brutus. That's why Act 1 is super easy, so that even first time players without any experience or game knowledge can survive it.

- GGG recommends playing in the current temporary league. It's the default option in the character creation screen, and it totally makes sense. The current league is what PoE is all about.

- New league's main mechanic is encountered in every area past the Twilight Strand.

- Every single one of the recent league mechanics encountered in Act 1 areas was SIGNIFICANTLY harder than those areas.

In other words, instead of the easy content specifically created for new players, those new players are sent towards far harder content.

A new player who is expected to have some trouble killing Brutus is immediately sent into a Delve where lv 3 monsters are at least twice as hard as lv 3 monsters in the Mud Flats AND he has to constantly keep moving while fighting them. Or into an Incursion that he has 0.00% chance of completing. Or meets a Beast that will eat him for breakfast. Or steps on an Abyss crack and gets torn to pieces. Etc, etc - every recent league mechanic was tuned WAY harder than the surrounding Act 1 area.

But doesn't this contradict the tuning goals for Act 1? Why would you make it so easy in Standard and then send the new players to the current league where it's so hard?

IMO you need to stop overtuning new league mechanics at low levels. Make them just as easy as the matching Act 1 areas. Don't throw difficult stuff at the new player who is making his first steps on the shores of Wraeclast. Be more friendly towards new players instead of shocking them with this OP stuff.

My 2 cents.

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Kelvynn wrote:

- Chris Wilson is famously quoted saying that most of the new PoE players never make it even to Brutus. That's why Act 1 is super easy, so that even first time players without any experience or game knowledge can survive it.

This is based on a faulty premise, which then leads to faulty conclusions.

The "most players don't pass Brutus" comes from PoE 1.0 release on Steam and it's NOT related to difficulty at all, but to hordes of Steam users checking out the game (it's free) and relizing early on that this is not a game for them. This "statistic" should be ignored because people abandoning the game after 30 mins, are not PoE's playerbase.

As for quest difficulty, I think it's way too easy and should me made much harder. Yes, we have paid leagues now that can make the content harder, but most players will not use that.

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morbo wrote:

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Kelvynn wrote:

- Chris Wilson is famously quoted saying that most of the new PoE players never make it even to Brutus. That's why Act 1 is super easy, so that even first time players without any experience or game knowledge can survive it.

This is based on a faulty premise, which then leads to faulty conclusions.

The "most players don't pass Brutus" comes from PoE 1.0 release on Steam and it's NOT related to difficulty at all, but to hordes of Steam users checking out the game (it's free) and relizing early on that this is not a game for them. This "statistic" should be ignored because people abandoning the game after 30 mins, are not PoE's playerbase.

Oh, my bad for not knowing the context of that statistic. I don't think it makes my point obsolete though.

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As for quest difficulty, I think it's way too easy and should me made much harder. Yes, we have paid leagues now that can make the content harder, but most players will not use that.

You think that Act 1 should be made harder? Wow. I really don't think you are right.

I watched a new player try PoE for the first time - which is actually what motivated me to make this post. The kid was very excited at first, loved the Twilight Strand, hyped to beat Hillock (hehe, I recommended him to start as a Shadow), liked the town and 'cool' NPCs, went on to kill some more stuff in the next couple of areas.

And then Niko offered him to enter the Mines. I didn't realize how hard it was. He got immediately rushed by a pack of tiny bugs and perma stunned. RIP. That was a major downer. 'This game is too hard'.

And you want it to be harder? For what purpose? This is freaking Act 1, not the endgame.

Definitely agree here. Doing league content before mapping is fun, but often is suicidal.

Agreed that league-specific content has been way overtuned in early zone areas, way back since Perandus imho. Act 1-2 are instead quite easy. I think a good balance could be in icreasing a bit the overall first act(s) difficulty and toning down the league mechanics encountered in these areas...

My 2c.

[Regarding on the "Brutus" thing,that doesn't say much imho; I'd love to see what percentage of players that at least killed Vaal Oversoul (end of act2) reach certain points ingame - kill Act5 Kitava, finish storyline, reach red maps, etc.]

+1.

No need for new content in act 1 and 2 to be so hard. Let new players get hooked into the game, not discouraged when encoutering overtuned content so early.

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Kelvynn wrote:

You think that Act 1 should be made harder? Wow. I really don't think you are right.

I would make the whole quest content much harder, but as an option akin to "/ players 8", without extra drops, maybe extra XP.

I realize that for new players it's already hard as is (considering also the steep learning curve), but for veteran players quest process is really boring. The new private leagues offer some nice mods, but I'm a solo player and private leagues are too expensive for me.

And yea, I also agree that league content tends to be much harder than the regular content they appear in. But I'm not sure how to give new players a smooth experience, while also giving veteran players something challenging. In-game difficulty settings (maybe per character) could be a solution. Or ramp up the overall difficulty, but offer a "tutorial quest mode" for new players.

But then there's the ladder which could prevent this. GGG for whatever reason wants to keep the semblance that PoE is a "competitive" game, while in reality no one gives a damn about the ladder.

I really don't think the difficulty in the first two acts will affect veteran players at all unless it's so ridiculously overtuned that only masochists will keep playing the game if they first start out. The private leagues exist to make that part of the game interesting again.

I fully agree that the first acts and the league content therein should be fully tuned to new players. Experienced players can just rush through in 20-30 minutes. It may be boring, but it doesn't last long.

The only issue that needs to be balanced around is the rate at which the game becomes harder later on. An easier start means a greater difference in difficulty between the start and the rest of the game.

Veteran players spend what, 10-20 min in Act 1? This content is not meant for them. I don't see a point in making it harder even for veterans. We have a lot more than the old 4 acts now.

But the difficulty spike presented by the league mechanics totally destroys the learning experience for the beginners. It could be OK to have the league stuff appear so early, but just make it really easy. It does not need to be so much harder than the area it's in.