Delve is the better Greater Rift and should be in the core game...

PoE has finally „Greater Rifts“ which is huge in my book, i hope GGG does have already plans to make it a integral part of PoE, and i don‘t mean a light version of the Delve, i‘m talking about a 100%-as-it-is-and-permanent-implementation.

Heck i love it.

You're joking right?

The difficulty of Delves is essentially capped. The issue that people pushing the ladder have is Sulphite.

The rate at which you progress Delves is incredibly slow. A lot of people have said they're forced to run Delves that are 10 levels or more below their character level.

The Delve ladder is a joke. Nobody outside of a very small amount of people push the ladder, and nobody from the standard population pushes at all.

There isn't a point to pushing deeper down in Delves.
The sulphite cost gets ridiculous, the difficulty of the monsters more or less cap out very early, and mapping is more profitable then delving.

And in my personal opinion.. Delves are boring as hell.
Some events literally have you waiting 60 seconds for a few monsters to spawn, such as the graveyard room and the chain of rock golems.

Greater rifts on the other hand:

GRs Scale infinitely, as does the exp and loot.

You can quickly catch up to the spot where your character's power level is in GRs due to what next tiers unlock depends on how quickly you completed your last rift. aka, if you clear a rift in 2mins, you unlock way more than just 1 tier of Greater Rifts (while in Delve you HAVE to follow the path down, meaning you're stuck at content you're overleveled/out geared for).

GRs actually challenge you. Have you ever tried to push in D3 GRs?
Delve: stand still and spam your DPS ability and 1 shot everything before they have a chance to attack.
GRs: Constantly kite mobs, drag elites, constantly make decisions on what to kill or what to skip etc etc etc

Diablo 3 has gotten very stale over the years, and the meta of groups leaves little reason for solo players to even try...
However... you cannot at all say Delves are better than GRs.
Feel free to go watch empyrean's group 1 shot all monsters at depth level 150 and at depth level 1500+

The problem with Delve as a league is that it really is a core game version as-is. If it goes core, there's very very little space to nerf sulfite drops without making the entire thing obsolete.

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Anonymous1749704 wrote:

The problem with Delve as a league is that it really is a core game version as-is. If it goes core, there's very very little space to nerf sulfite drops without making the entire thing obsolete.

I'm fine with it going core, as long as sulphite is removed.

The sulphite alter map layouts and create dead ends, which can really mess you over... especially if you're playing something like Aila's RF Occultist, which depends on killing things recently to stay alive.

And for how Delve was made, you either need sulphite to spawn in every area, or you cannot progress at all.

The fix for this is to have sulphite appear rarely, but give HUGE amounts, and have basically no cap to sulphite, meaning it'll screw with map layouts less and players can Delve for much longer. Rather than map for 5-20mins and delve for 5mins.
...but at that stage why not just remove sulphite and find another method...

Yeah, as expected the main limiting factor to delving is sulphite cost. Monsters are tougher in Delve (which is great) and some map mods can really wreck you (exra damage, multiproj vaal areas, etc..), but at the same time you can just go around the diffiuclt zones, which again is just limited by sulphite and your wilingness to grind it / waste it on detours.

If you aren't killing mobs fast enough they can clog you, which can become dangerous, but at the same time you can run ahead skipping packs or clear the path before you trigger the cart and then send the cart onto an empty path.

In terms of gameplay, Delve is much easier than it should be (burst damage / "oneshotting" = biggest threat, as usual) and the fact that you can get to a lvl 83 zone just by farming quarry, is silly too.

Seeing how much will they change it since release, it's not wrong to say we are in a public betatesting phase that will last for the whole league. I like Delve and hope they will put it into core (properly polished). But sulphite collecting will always be aids, tweaking numbers here and there will not change the "aftertaste" of it.

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Fallen_Enigma wrote:

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Anonymous1749704 wrote:

The problem with Delve as a league is that it really is a core game version as-is. If it goes core, there's very very little space to nerf sulfite drops without making the entire thing obsolete.

I'm fine with it going core, as long as sulphite is removed.

The sulphite alter map layouts and create dead ends, which can really mess you over... especially if you're playing something like Aila's RF Occultist, which depends on killing things recently to stay alive.

And for how Delve was made, you either need sulphite to spawn in every area, or you cannot progress at all.

The fix for this is to have sulphite appear rarely, but give HUGE amounts, and have basically no cap to sulphite, meaning it'll screw with map layouts less and players can Delve for much longer. Rather than map for 5-20mins and delve for 5mins.
...but at that stage why not just remove sulphite and find another method...

honestly I would have thought the other way around, its a league right now, sulfite cost should not be there or greatly reduced for us, but it should have sulfite in the core game cause you dont want to take it over the mapping system.

Delve is nothing like Greater Rifts and Fallen_Enigma's post basically summarizes why.

The problem in GGG is that the mine don't really scale except in negligible ways (more random 1-shot mechanics). The whole fun in GRs is that they force you to push your build to the limit. The mines do none of that - monsters still die way too quickly even at depth 1800, and there's no point in trying to make your character more tanky either because the monsters will 1-shot you regardless of how much EHP you have. (Mind that this last point was the case for season 1 of diablo GRs as well - all the top clearing builds had basically zero EHP, the difference was that in diablo's GRs you actually needed shittons of DPS to compete for rank 1, whereas in PoE you just need time investment)

The delves are a thinly veiled time sink, nothing resembling an actual game. I personally fully expect them to add Sulphite/Azurite MTX to the Chinese game when it hits standard.

"

sulfite cost should not be there or greatly reduced for us, but it should have sulfite in the core game cause you dont want to take it over the mapping system.

The mines would only take over the mapping system in the case of:

1. The mines being more profitable (already not the case, and if it was you could just tone down rewards)
2. The mines granting more XP/hr (could solve this by capping mob level at a lower value while still making their Health/Damage increase)
3. The mines being more fun to play (if this is the case, then you need to rethink the mapping system anyway rather than forcing players into it)

Delve is fun and should be made part of the core game. The D3 Greater Rift discussion is interesting but not directly related to that point.

Okay it appears many of you have conveniently forgotten how mechanics are converted into Standard or Base game after leagues are done.

In EVERY case, no exception, they are lessened in some manner - be it chance of occurrence or loot accessibility or whatever.

To ask for Delve MINUS sulphite is antithetical to the clear history of this game.

As such, expect Delve to be added to core game (but it will be delayed like Incursion) with LESS chance to get sulphite.

The only way Delve would be added as is would be if GGG decides on parallel end-game scenarios and I look at that as very, very long odds. And, to this point, anything added to the base game that takes significant attention away from whatever is the new league/mechanic is detrimental to the game cycle GGG has designed.

I reiterate a point I always make - if Legacy was added to the base game as it was in the league, I would be playing Standard all day long. And that is not good for GGG's game design.

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Slaanesh69 wrote:

Okay it appears many of you have conveniently forgotten how mechanics are converted into Standard or Base game after leagues are done.

In EVERY case, no exception, they are lessened in some manner - be it chance of occurrence or loot accessibility or whatever.

To ask for Delve MINUS sulphite is antithetical to the clear history of this game.

As such, expect Delve to be added to core game (but it will be delayed like Incursion) with LESS chance to get sulphite.

The only way Delve would be added as is would be if GGG decides on parallel end-game scenarios and I look at that as very, very long odds. And, to this point, anything added to the base game that takes significant attention away from whatever is the new league/mechanic is detrimental to the game cycle GGG has designed.

I reiterate a point I always make - if Legacy was added to the base game as it was in the league, I would be playing Standard all day long. And that is not good for GGG's game design.

The hell are you on about?
A lot of leagues are Zana-only, so there goes your case for:
"clear history" : "In EVERY case, no exception, they are lessened in some manner"

Few examples, Harbingers & Perandus are Zana only.
Invasion bosses are Sextant, prophecy etc
Warbands are... Sextant and Zana?
I don't know all the combinations, but essentially, your argument is wrong.
In some leagues, you can have Harbingers and Perandus EVERY map, and in some leagues you CANNOT have it AT ALL.
(As on long as you pay, the mechanic isn't lessened, and you can even profit from the mechanic making the payment redundant..aka free Harbinger all the time.)

So you have three choices:
1. Make Delve a Zana only thing.
2. Make Delve completely core and throw Sulphite at players, or else risk making it dead content.
3. Rework/Remove Sulphite.

And obviously the occurrence of league mechanics drop as they go core (such as abyss and breach, being 1/10 rather than 1/1), HOWEVER IF YOU HAD HALF A BRAIN you could realise we're discussing that issue; SULPHITE. Sulphite is already a HUGE issue with this league, and if it goes core in its current state with a REDUCED chance of sulphite appearing, then DELVES ARE WORTHLESS because your progression would be DRASTICALLY hindered to the point where it isn't worth it AT ALL.

SO instead of screaming "you guys are idiots, its gonna go core but with less sulphite" yeah no shit. That's what we're discussing; sulphite and what to do with it.

Final Edit:

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Anonymous1749704 wrote:

If it goes core, there's very very little space to nerf sulfite drops without making the entire thing obsolete.

This post implies reduced sulphite with Delve going core.
And he's saying that reducing the sulphite wont work.