SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

"

Turtledove wrote:

"

The_Reporter wrote:

Are you in the beta, TD? If you could see what it's like in practice rather than just what's in the manifesto, we can get a better idea of where things are at :)

I received my email invite, but cannot log in to my supporter account anymore now that it's deleted, or I'd check it out myself :D

I'm not in beta. I only donated $400 and so didn't make the cut. I doubt if I would play though, even if I had a beta key. I'm still having fun playing Diablo 3. Once that gets old I can play a new game or go back to Grim Dawn if they haven't fixed PoE by then?

I have a beta key left over from the pack I bought, as I already had access by default. If you want, it's yours.

That at least gives you the option to choose, without a monetary investment. :)

"

Xavathos wrote:

"

Turtledove wrote:

"

The_Reporter wrote:

Are you in the beta, TD? If you could see what it's like in practice rather than just what's in the manifesto, we can get a better idea of where things are at :)

I received my email invite, but cannot log in to my supporter account anymore now that it's deleted, or I'd check it out myself :D

I'm not in beta. I only donated $400 and so didn't make the cut. I doubt if I would play though, even if I had a beta key. I'm still having fun playing Diablo 3. Once that gets old I can play a new game or go back to Grim Dawn if they haven't fixed PoE by then?

I have a beta key left over from the pack I bought, as I already had access by default. If you want, it's yours.

That at least gives you the option to choose, without a monetary investment. :)

Thanks! I really appreciate the offer but, give it to someone else.

Yah the "BETA Lab" is just as much garbage as it was before BETA; and now given the resist penalty is permanent once you move from Part I->II (and III when it comes out). Well that speaks for itself.

GGG is wholly disconnected from and simply doesn't care about how so many players utterly hate the lab, and locking character progression into the Lab system is an absurd, flawed and very poor design. This thread is over 500 pages now (and granted not every post in this thread is against the Lab), and regardless of the feedback, the simple fact is GGG has no intention of disconnecting the lab from the acquisition of ascendancy points. They don't care. And part of the reason they don't care is because they "are" the 1% of players.

The core requirement of the Lab is the issue. Making it shorter or whatnot will not change the fact that locking points behind it is the problem. Either GGG disconnects ascendancy from the lab, or the problem will forever persist and piss off players.

I hated the lab since it came out, I hated the lab in 2.6, and I hate the lab in BETA. Simply put I hate the lab. And I know a ton of other players feel the same way (they have told me). Also I will never, EVER do uber lab because it's such a tedious cess pool of crap; so I'll only ever get 6 points. That'll forever restrict my character growth. Oh and I only do the lab when I can faceroll it because it is such a tedious and un-fun waste of time.

"

Mooginator wrote:

Yah the "BETA Lab" is just as much garbage as it was before BETA; and now given the resist penalty is permanent once you move from Part I->II (and III when it comes out). Well that speaks for itself.

GGG is wholly disconnected from and simply doesn't care about how so many players utterly hate the lab, and locking character progression into the Lab system is an absurd, flawed and very poor design. This thread is over 500 pages now (and granted not every post in this thread is against the Lab), and regardless of the feedback, the simple fact is GGG has no intention of disconnecting the lab from the acquisition of ascendancy points. They don't care. And part of the reason they don't care is because they "are" the 1% of players.

The core requirement of the Lab is the issue. Making it shorter or whatnot will not change the fact that locking points behind it is the problem. Either GGG disconnects ascendancy from the lab, or the problem will forever persist and piss off players.

I hated the lab since it came out, I hated the lab in 2.6, and I hate the lab in BETA. Simply put I hate the lab. And I know a ton of other players feel the same way (they have told me). Also I will never, EVER do uber lab because it's such a tedious cess pool of crap; so I'll only ever get 6 points. That'll forever restrict my character growth. Oh and I only do the lab when I can faceroll it because it is such a tedious and un-fun waste of time.

GGG has not for a very long time done anything for the 1% players or the hardcore (not league choice, but playstyle) players.


The continuation of the ascendancy points being tied to the lab is obvious, they already created the content to be the challenge to get the points, if you don't like to do it, no one forces you to, you just miss out on the largest power creep the game has to offer, NBD.


GGG doesn't care if it pisses players off, matter of fact GGG cannot really care about pissing players off because we've already passed the threshold where whatever they do will upset one side or another and its best to play to your strengths and support the content you already made, then to give up on your design ideas because people are too afraid of running some traps.


So instead of challenging yourself to do the lab around the level requirement it is set to, you just go back and do it after you faceroll. I have news for you, the beta, the bosses are quite difficult, my hopes if GGG keeps them closer on the difficult scale so that you are "forced" to get as many power spikes as necessary to continue your character and defeat the bosses. (unless of course you like to just zerg them)

Now that the acts are coming out after AC has been added, they should be balanced for having the points at key parts of the game, which means if you don't get the points its going to be detrimental.


How anyone is complaining about having to do something to get power outside of gear is beyond me. The fact you won't touch the uber lab to me proves how ignorant some members of the community are towards the lab.

"

Turtledove wrote:

"

The_Reporter wrote:

Are you in the beta, TD? If you could see what it's like in practice rather than just what's in the manifesto, we can get a better idea of where things are at :)

I received my email invite, but cannot log in to my supporter account anymore now that it's deleted, or I'd check it out myself :D

I'm not in beta. I only donated $400 and so didn't make the cut. I doubt if I would play though, even if I had a beta key. I'm still having fun playing Diablo 3. Once that gets old I can play a new game or go back to Grim Dawn if they haven't fixed PoE by then?

Support is not a donation. IDK why everyone and there mother says I've donated blah blah to GGG, no you supported GGG, you traded your money for goods\services, that is not a donation.

Poe will never be "fixed" by your standards, because you put this one issue so far above the rest, to the point of obsession. D3 is more your style anyway.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

Turtledove wrote:

"

The_Reporter wrote:

Are you in the beta, TD? If you could see what it's like in practice rather than just what's in the manifesto, we can get a better idea of where things are at :)

I received my email invite, but cannot log in to my supporter account anymore now that it's deleted, or I'd check it out myself :D

I'm not in beta. I only donated $400 and so didn't make the cut. I doubt if I would play though, even if I had a beta key. I'm still having fun playing Diablo 3. Once that gets old I can play a new game or go back to Grim Dawn if they haven't fixed PoE by then?

Support is not a donation. IDK why everyone and there mother says I've donated blah blah to GGG, no you supported GGG, you traded your money for goods\services, that is not a donation.

Poe will never be "fixed" by your standards, because you put this one issue so far above the rest, to the point of obsession. D3 is more your style anyway.

People are acting like shareholders on the basis of having bought a supporter pack. I've explained the difference between a donation and supporter packs already in this thread, I don't feel the need to repeat myself again.

Yes, of course supporters are much appreciated, no one will claim otherwise, but you're just that, a supporter. A player like any other.

I support charities in real life as well, that doesn't make me any better or more important a person than someone who doesn't. It's my choice to do so. My reasons for doing it are my own. Why should anyone else be affected by the choices I make in my life, by my preferences, my opinions? I think a few posters in this thread are very happy that's not the case, haha, and that's totally fine.

Same goes for supporters here. I support GGG, because I believe in their ability to develop Path of Exile and keep developing it. Theirs, not my own. Even if buying the packs allowed me to have a say in what happens, which they clearly don't.

"

goetzjam wrote:

The fact you won't touch the uber lab to me proves how ignorant some members of the community are towards the lab.

It doesn't get more entertaining than this.

First, I ran the Uber lab once; I'll never do it again because of the time sink cess pool of despicable play that's "required" to obtain and complete it. I despise the lab so much and want the feature to die a horrible death so greatly I simply will not participate in pursuing Uber points. EVER (even with my characters that can do it). I only do the first 6 points because I can faceroll them. But I hate every minute of it (like so many others).

Second, given less than 1% of all players/characters ever do the Uber lab (and the majority of them are carries by the "ultra elite" that players pay for) this just reaffirms the problem isn't just GGG, but a number of players that think it's OK to lock character development features behind a "hated" system (by the majority of players), and a system that at its final stage, less than 1% of players can remotely successfully participate in.

Yup, that's some great design there.

The Lab sucks. The massive majority of players hate it and want another way to obtain ascendancy points tied to work/effort/challenge/skill that doesn't include dodging mind-numbing traps and mis-clicking to be 1-shot killed only to have to start the entire process over again from scratch.

Oh, and if the Lab was removed and replaced with some alternative system that made more sense, do you think anyone would miss the lab? Nope. Perhaps only the 1% or less who think it's "cool". People would reminisce and say "remember that crappy lab system back in the day and the traps and 1-shot kills that forced you to start over. So nice PoE got away from that!".

The lab is only staying in PoE because GGG doesn't want to acknowledge they created a really crappy mechanic that most everyone hates, and they refuse to put effort into coming up with something better.

It's a bad design, bad implementation, designed solely for HC folks, and the worst "feature" PoE has. Simple as that.

"

Mooginator wrote:

The lab is only staying in PoE because GGG doesn't want to acknowledge they created a really crappy mechanic that most everyone hates, and they refuse to put effort into coming up with something better.

Can't really agree with this. The way I see it, the lab is staying because not enough people hate it, if that was the case they'd have to admit they made bad content but as it is you might get them to say it's mildly subpar at worst. The other reason it stays is because it's expensive to replace it with something else and replacing content that basically does the job is not really necessary.

Dunno, man, they're running a business, I don't think there's room for being stubborn just for the sake of it or, god forbid, to spite a few people.

"

raics wrote:

"

Mooginator wrote:

The lab is only staying in PoE because GGG doesn't want to acknowledge they created a really crappy mechanic that most everyone hates, and they refuse to put effort into coming up with something better.

Can't really agree with this. The way I see it, the lab is staying because not enough people hate it, if that was the case they'd have to admit they made bad content but as it is you might get them to say it's mildly subpar at worst. The other reason it stays is because it's expensive to replace it with something else and replacing content that basically does the job is not really necessary.

Dunno, man, they're running a business, I don't think there's room for being stubborn just for the sake of it or, god forbid, to spite a few people.

Actually, I think that may be the problem. GGG has built a great game but I don't think that they really do any research into their user base. To a degree it's understandable. The original idea and implementation had to be done based on gut feel and general vision/goals. The idea being that they've been amazingly successful up to this point. Like any new start up company though, establishing a successful start-up generally requires different processes and vision/goals from an established company that needs to grow and become more successful. GGG now has a large user base and they could do research into all kinds of things. Using Reddit and this forum will give some user views. This generally is the view of the top 1% or 2% of the player base though. The GGG developers are also part of that group I'm sure. I think that may be creating some blind spots in the way that GGG is looking at their user base.