SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

"

EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

Most of the time, you get at least the option to develop your character in new ways in RPGs or ARPGs simply by leveling. The leveling process is supposed to proxy getting enough experience and skill to build up your repertoire of available skills and your options for character development. The "you gotta do something special to become special" stuff is not unheard of, but it isn't usual.

It is, many of the greatest rpg ever done use that kind of system just to mention FF series, Zelda series, Might and Magic series, and definitely tons of others.

And the lab is in line with the rest of the game, you progress through a dungeon to ascend, following the lore.

Btw, can you show us another part of PoE where the game makes you do something purely related to your class ?

And no I'm not waiting, you can't obviously.
=> It's completely in line with the rest of the game.

"

EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

You get to experience the sensation of "WTF is this platform mini-game piece of shit doing in an ARPG?" up to four times for each new character you make.

Probably mentioned this before, but the way specialization works most often in online RPGs is these two approaches:
1. It's part of the levelling process so you're getting it practically for free, talk to some npc, bam, free powerup.
2. Having to do some unbelievably tedious quest chain that can be bypassed by purchasing a class upgrade item in the shop.

The first one is lazy and underwhelming, even if I considered the lab an awful piece of content I'd still be glad GGG didn't do it that way.

And my previous post says why online games can get away with option 2, the content is obviously allowed to be bad if you do it rarely enough. I probably don't even have to say what's my opinion on that, very few people like it and it wouldn't even be possible in PoE because its cycle is way shorter.

So, compared to the norm, we can see that GGG honestly tried to give us a better method of acquiring a prestige class, something impactful and accessible to everyone, which is why it isn't just a simple power check. It's fine if it did fall a bit flat in some places, they did try and the thing is doing its job even if it isn't perfect, replacing or reworking it would cost money.

You know what? An alternative "Unbelievably tedious quest" that still plays like the rest of the game, would be highly preferably to what we see in the Labyrinth, at least in my case (In fact, that was one of my suggestions: A quest line whose availability is tied in with leveling the Forsaken Masters corresponding to your class).

In the proposal I made, during a 3 month challenge league, playing SSF, I'd personally only see one forsaken master leveled to the point where I could potentially get the final 2 ascendancy points, so it's not a shortcut quest, certainly more tedious, and retains the Labyrinth battle with Izaro (and lore accompanying it), without the trap navigation elements, and no treasures.

So I'm all for that option.

"

Zaludoz wrote:

You know what? An alternative "Unbelievably tedious quest" that still plays like the rest of the game, would be highly preferably to what we see in the Labyrinth, at least in my case

The problem with the masters suggestion is it's something that gets done by itself sooner or later. Devs could easily incorporate ascendancies into some existing system but that wouldn't be impactful enough, it wouldn't feel like working to improve your character and I'd agree it's an important point.

Let me give you an example of the level of tediousness that would tempt a player to visit the cash shop:

"

Drop divination cards to complete the following sets:
Hunter's Resolve
Assassin's Favour
The Saint's Treasure

Yeah, I know those areas are a huge pain in the ass to farm. After trying to do it for the card challenge in one league I finally cracked and bought the rest, it was so mindnumbingly tedious.

There's a good reason tasks like that are reserved for the higher challenge thresholds in PoE leagues, we don't spend enough time on one character to complete them along with everything else we need to do. No matter how easy some claim the lab is, it's still a significantly bigger challenge than farming some autopilot area. Dunno about you, but the amount of easy farming that would have to replace it is not something I'd like to tackle on a regular basis.

You know what, we might just bookmark this and revisit it after we've played the Pantheon system in 3.0 for a while. It's pretty much the same thing some players would like to replace the lab with - killing bosses for a char upgrade, though ascendancy bosses would probably need to be harder because you get more power than through pantheon.

"

Xavathos wrote:

"

raics wrote:

"

Xavathos wrote:

Not sure. Ask Support if that's possible.

I suppose it's possible if you can donate a crate of beer or a stack of pizza. Or not, depending on the local laws that cover monetary gifts it might be a huge pain in the ass to pull a donation through the books if you aren't a non-profit or a charity organization.

So, as far as the state of NZ is concerned, The_Reporter didn't donate anything. Well, according to me either, he received the right to use his virtual goods for his money and then asked GGG to revoke the right because he can't just pick the permit up and tear it in two.

At least that's what the Terms of Use say, we're renting indefinitely, not buying.

That's exactly what I meant, thank you Raics.

Its sad there isn't a stand alone version we could just play solo self found where someone could make an addon that causes the LAB to implode into the earth and never be seen again.

"

Xavathos wrote:

It's 4 times per character and you don't need to at all. You also don't need to do maps, or start the game or even get out of bed in the morning.

If you want to get anywhere in life or in game though... you'll have to do something for it. Sometimes that's fun stuff, sometimes it's not. And yes that applies even to entertainment and games. You can never please everyone.

Welcome to the real world, would you like a tissue?

So who is paying me to play terrible content? When I do stuff in real life that sucks its only if I get to bill for it.

Games should be risk reward but the lab isn't that it's pay to win and only still exists because some developer has a hard on for this content, that is forced to be mandatory because in testing they probably found no sane individual would run it otherwise.

When they realized no one would rerun it they made the rewards stupid good.
Some of us like to play the game to enjoy the successor to D2 not a bad version of platform game and do not feel throwing a guildie 2C to bypass it makes a fuck ton of sense.

"

Zalhan2 wrote:

Its sad there isn't a stand alone version we could just play solo self found where someone could make an addon that causes the LAB to implode into the earth and never be seen again.

I certainly wouldn't say no to the option. Imploding lab aside, I'd be drooling at the prospect of modding PoE.

On the "Masters tied to quest chain" topic:

My suggestion isn't simply to level the masters and gain the ascendancy points. Leveling the masters would be the equivalent of completing the entry trials to the Labyrinth (their being shared across league is the same as trials also). Once the way is open, you then need to complete their quest chain. (I should have just linked to my actual proposal instead of explaining it all over again...)

These quests would not be like asian mmo's that you're talking about. I wouldn't want to impose an annoyance that sends people to a non-existent cash shop option. We're just talking a rough equivalency to the Labyrinth, with the realization that this alternative does not grant Labyrinth uniques or boot/glove/helm enchants, or treasure coffers at the end filled with maps and divination cards, etc, so this is a lesser rewarded method of ascending and should not be a directly equal method. Keeping the Izaro fight involved in the quest chain should be sufficient for a majority of the required equivalency since people say traps are like "5% of the labyrinth anyway" - the rest can be covered by defeating enemies that are very dangerous, perhaps something like triple-essence possessed with a talisman type bosses, with blue packs instead of white fodder (add bloodlines and nemesis stuff all over).

Also, the Labyrinth would be a much faster option for people who don't mind it, since the only requirement to entering the Labyrinth would be the trials and the only requirement to gain the ascendancy points is killing Izaro x3, whereas the Masters require significant RNG related to finding and leveling them, similar to Uber-trials (outside of rotations not available to SSF.) And of course, the Labyrinth remains the enchant-farming area it always has been, with tons of profit from that and all the other loot - in fact, the people who now prefer the alternative method of ascending would no longer be doing even the basic run through the Labyrinth for the current rewards even one time, increasing the profitablity of the Labyrinth further for those who continue doing it.

"

Zalhan2 wrote:

"

Xavathos wrote:

It's 4 times per character and you don't need to at all. You also don't need to do maps, or start the game or even get out of bed in the morning.

If you want to get anywhere in life or in game though... you'll have to do something for it. Sometimes that's fun stuff, sometimes it's not. And yes that applies even to entertainment and games. You can never please everyone.

[Removed by Support]

So who is paying me to play terrible content? When I do stuff in real life that sucks its only if I get to bill for it.

Straight out BS, plain and simple.

[Removed by Support]

"

Zalhan2 wrote:

"

Xavathos wrote:

It's 4 times per character and you don't need to at all. You also don't need to do maps, or start the game or even get out of bed in the morning.

If you want to get anywhere in life or in game though... you'll have to do something for it. Sometimes that's fun stuff, sometimes it's not. And yes that applies even to entertainment and games. You can never please everyone.

[Removed by Support]

So who is paying me to play terrible content? When I do stuff in real life that sucks its only if I get to bill for it.

Games should be risk reward but the lab isn't that it's pay to win and only still exists because some developer has a hard on for this content, that is forced to be mandatory because in testing they probably found no sane individual would run it otherwise.

When they realized no one would rerun it they made the rewards stupid good.
Some of us like to play the game to enjoy the successor to D2 not a bad version of platform game and do not feel throwing a guildie 2C to bypass it makes a fuck ton of sense.

Dude.......