SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Fruz wrote:

Can you give GGG money from their website without actually buying point ?
Because then, basically nobody donated if we follow that logic.

Not sure. Ask Support if that's possible.

And yes, that is what I'm saying. It's just a technicality, but a very important one for GGG. Accepting donations brings a can of worms with it...

Then you're just splitting hairs to me.

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Fruz wrote:

Then you're just splitting hairs to me.

I know. And it's up to the buyer to buy the packs for the points or to support the game. But because you get your money's worth back in points, GGG is covered on legal grounds.

Like I said, if they were indeed real donations, it would open a whole other can of worms.

I won't argue that for some people they feel or are meant as donations of course. That's subjective.

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Xavathos wrote:

Not sure. Ask Support if that's possible.

I suppose it's possible if you can donate a crate of beer or a stack of pizza. Or not, depending on the local laws that cover monetary gifts it might be a huge pain in the ass to pull a donation through the books if you aren't a non-profit or a charity organization.

So, as far as the state of NZ is concerned, The_Reporter didn't donate anything. Well, according to me either, he received the right to use his virtual goods for his money and then asked GGG to revoke the right because he can't just pick the permit up and tear it in two.

At least that's what the Terms of Use say, we're renting indefinitely, not buying.

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raics wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

Not sure. Ask Support if that's possible.

I suppose it's possible if you can donate a crate of beer or a stack of pizza. Or not, depending on the local laws that cover monetary gifts it might be a huge pain in the ass to pull a donation through the books if you aren't a non-profit or a charity organization.

So, as far as the state of NZ is concerned, The_Reporter didn't donate anything. Well, according to me either, he received the right to use his virtual goods for his money and then asked GGG to revoke the right because he can't just pick the permit up and tear it in two.

At least that's what the Terms of Use say, we're renting indefinitely, not buying.

That's exactly what I meant, thank you Raics.

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Xavathos wrote:

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raics wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

Not sure. Ask Support if that's possible.

I suppose it's possible if you can donate a crate of beer or a stack of pizza. Or not, depending on the local laws that cover monetary gifts it might be a huge pain in the ass to pull a donation through the books if you aren't a non-profit or a charity organization.

So, as far as the state of NZ is concerned, The_Reporter didn't donate anything. Well, according to me either, he received the right to use his virtual goods for his money and then asked GGG to revoke the right because he can't just pick the permit up and tear it in two.

At least that's what the Terms of Use say, we're renting indefinitely, not buying.

That's exactly what I meant, thank you Raics.

At least in the USA there is the concept of a tax deductible donation. Tax deductible donations require that the entity being donated to have tax deductible charity status. Making donations to entities that are not charities is fully allowed and reasonable within the English language. Those donations though are not tax deductible. Donating money to GGG is not a tax deductible donation but, it is still reasonable to use the word donation when voluntarily purchasing GGG supporter packs. Especially since many such "purchases" like mine or probably Xavathos were made without great consideration as to what the points would be spent on. We just made the donation and then I, for example, said to myself, "Well I have way over a hundred stash tabs. I guess I'll just fill my hideout up with pets." So I added so many pets to my hideout that I had to move many pets back into my mtx tab because it would sometimes crash the client of people coming to my hideout to trade.

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Turtledove wrote:

Especially since many such "purchases" like mine or probably Xavathos were made without great consideration as to what the points would be spent on. We just made the donation and then I, for example, said to myself, "Well I have way over a hundred stash tabs. I guess I'll just fill my hideout up with pets." So I added so many pets to my hideout that I had to move many pets back into my mtx tab because it would sometimes crash the client of people coming to my hideout to trade.

Yeah, we got a perfectly suitable name for that, by making purchases you don't need to you're supporting the company, you aren't donating because you're getting something for your money and you aren't investing because you don't expect a share of the profit or other benefits.

So, if you buy a supporter pack in PoE you're just getting a good deal, and if you buy a supporter pack and didn't need its contents you're choosing to support the devs, as simple as that. If they didn't refund Reporter, he still supported them.

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Turtledove wrote:

Especially since many such "purchases" like mine or probably Xavathos were made without great consideration as to what the points would be spent on. We just made the donation and then I, for example, said to myself, "Well I have way over a hundred stash tabs. I guess I'll just fill my hideout up with pets." So I added so many pets to my hideout that I had to move many pets back into my mtx tab because it would sometimes crash the client of people coming to my hideout to trade.

Hehe, that strangely enough just about sums up my process of going through what to spend points on... Indeed, trading is a nightmare for people with low-end PCs in my hideout, so I had to cut back on the pets badly. Also those Ice Crystals from the winter boxes... something about the particles used in them absolutely hates lower-end CPUs.

I've had people tell me they went from 60 to 3 fps leaving Highgate to visit my hideout when I just had a few snow effects and crystals out, no pets... Pets themselves also make the loading time much longer for some. It's kind of a shame that it's such a problem to so many people to "pimp" your hideout. It kind of defeats the purpose of showing off creativity when it lags or crashes most of those who'd see it...

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raics wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Especially since many such "purchases" like mine or probably Xavathos were made without great consideration as to what the points would be spent on. We just made the donation and then I, for example, said to myself, "Well I have way over a hundred stash tabs. I guess I'll just fill my hideout up with pets." So I added so many pets to my hideout that I had to move many pets back into my mtx tab because it would sometimes crash the client of people coming to my hideout to trade.

Yeah, we got a perfectly suitable name for that, by making purchases you don't need to you're supporting the company, you aren't donating because you're getting something for your money and you aren't investing because you don't expect a share of the profit or other benefits.

So, if you buy a supporter pack in PoE you're just getting a good deal, and if you buy a supporter pack and didn't need its contents you're choosing to support the devs, as simple as that. If they didn't refund Reporter, he still supported them.

That's what I've been trying to say. I can completely understand how it would FEEL like a donation to someone like Turtledove or anyone else. It just can't be defined as a donation, because that brings certain legal issues with it, considering GGG is not a non-profit or charity organisation.

"Donating" seems to be the popular way to describe what you do, but it's actually inaccurate and may come paired with a feeling of entitlement on the basis of having made said donations. But since they're not, that entitlement falls flat. That's important when addressing this issue in discussions where people want change and give their opinion weight with the argument of donating, The_Reporter did in this thread earlier.

We're just customers that have supported more than most, which in turn makes it possible for others to play free and GGG to keep developing. That's a great thing and you should be proud to have been a part of the reason why the game is an ongoing success. Just don't think you are entitled to anything, because the points, the MXTs, even the account you play on, it's in fact not actually yours. You're just renting it indefinitely, until decided otherwise as a result of various things like bans etc.

I know it may come across as such that I'm empowering the already almighty entity, while taking it away from us players, but really I'm just trying to be realistic.

Okay, that's deep enough for me for one day. Though, nice to see we do have something in common Turtledove, hopefully we can follow that trend. :)

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Xavathos wrote:

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"Donating" seems to be the popular way to describe what you do, but it's actually inaccurate and may come paired with a feeling of entitlement on the basis of having made said donations. But since they're not, that entitlement falls flat. That's important when addressing this issue in discussions where people want change and give their opinion weight with the argument of donating, The_Reporter did in this thread earlier.

We're just customers that have supported more than most, which in turn makes it possible for others to play free and GGG to keep developing. That's a great thing and you should be proud to have been a part of the reason why the game is an ongoing success. Just don't think you are entitled to anything, because the points, the MXTs, even the account you play on, it's in fact not actually yours. You're just renting it indefinitely, until decided otherwise as a result of various things like bans etc.

I know it may come across as such that I'm empowering the already almighty entity, while taking it away from us players, but really I'm just trying to be realistic.

Okay, that's deep enough for me for one day. Though, nice to see we do have something in common Turtledove, hopefully we can follow that trend. :)

Donating is not really an inaccurate word to describe it. Now describing it as a "legal" donation then it would be inaccurate because that would falsely imply that GGG is a charity. But, not all donations need be tax deductible.