Reflect Mechanism

Consider you deal a hit with 10000 fire damage. The enemy hit has 60% fire resistance and reflect 15% elemental damage. You have 75% fire resistance.

1. Is the reflected damage calculated before or after enemy damage reduction?
Case #1.1: Before - reflected damage = 10000 * 15% * ( 1 - 75% ) = 375;
Case #1.2: After - reflected damage = 10000 * ( 1 - 60% ) * 15% * ( 1 - 75% ) = 150.

2. If case #1.2 is true, assuming that the above hit penetrates 10% fire resistance. Will it penetrates the player resistance too?
Case #2.1: Yes - reflected damage = 10000 * ( 1 - 50% ) * 15% * ( 1 - 65% ) = 262.5;
Case #2.2: No - reflected damage = 10000 * ( 1 - 50% ) * 15% * ( 1 - 75% ) = 187.5.

3. If case #2.1 is true, that means high penetration will skyrocket the reflected damage as it double dip it. How about if your damage ignore enemies resistance, will you resistance be ignored too?
Case #3.1: Yes - reflected damage = 10000 * 15% = 1500;
Case #3.2: No - reflected damage = 10000 * 15% * ( 1 - 75% ) = 375.

If case #3.2 is true, ignoring resistance can be a suicidal move even with one single hit. Then I really need to reconsider whether to pick inquisitor to ignore enemies resistance.

I always thought it were case 2

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WillisTheWillis wrote:

Consider you deal a hit with 10000 fire damage. The enemy hit has 60% fire resistance and reflect 15% elemental damage. You have 75% fire resistance.

1. Is the reflected damage calculated before or after enemy damage reduction?
Case #1.1: Before - reflected damage = 10000 * 15% * ( 1 - 75% ) = 375;
Case #1.2: After - reflected damage = 10000 * ( 1 - 60% ) * 15% * ( 1 - 75% ) = 150.

2. If case #1.2 is true, assuming that the above hit penetrates 10% fire resistance. Will it penetrates the player resistance too?
Case #2.1: Yes - reflected damage = 10000 * ( 1 - 50% ) * 15% * ( 1 - 65% ) = 262.5;
Case #2.2: No - reflected damage = 10000 * ( 1 - 50% ) * 15% * ( 1 - 75% ) = 187.5.

3. If case #2.1 is true, that means high penetration will skyrocket the reflected damage as it double dip it. How about if your damage ignore enemies resistance, will you resistance be ignored too?
Case #3.1: Yes - reflected damage = 10000 * 15% = 1500;
Case #3.2: No - reflected damage = 10000 * 15% * ( 1 - 75% ) = 375.

If case #3.2 is true, ignoring resistance can be a suicidal move even with one single hit. Then I really need to reconsider whether to pick inquisitor to ignore enemies resistance.

I will be interested to find out too.

Currently, the reflected damage carries over everything from the reflected source.
Eg. On my Supernova mage if I use a cold resist penetration in my link, my Nova can rekt me pretty hard on a good crit... without it I almost don't feel ANYTHING reflected.

So currently my nova damage will hit a reflect mob dealing extra damage from the cold resist penetration which mean the reflected damage is also increased and then that damage will also penetrate a % of my own cold resist then I take the resulting damage.

If the Inquisitor resist ignore works the same way as current, then shit like discharge, flameblast, or even ice nova could all easily 1 shot the caster.

My understanding is that reflection is based upon "damage taken", which is calculated after mitigation is applied by the reflecting creature. If you ignore a creature's resistances, more damage will be taken by him, and more damage will therefore be reflected back to you. The Inquisitor's ability is dangerous in that regard.

However, GGG tends to word its effects very precisely, and Inevitable Judgement's effect specifically states that it ignores the resistances of enemies. Since the Inquisitor is not his own enemy - even when beating on a mob with reflect damage - it ought not to affect his ability to mitigate the damage returned to him by the reflecting creature.

It's particularly worth noting that the phrasing used by Inevitable Judgement is exceptional in this regard. Most resistance penetration simply states that damage penetrates resistance without any qualifier. This would tend to suggest that reflected damage does inherit the attacker's resistance penetration as a general rule, and they chose to make an exception for Inevitable Judgement in order that a critically-striking Inquisitor may stand a chance of not instantly murdering himself.

If that's accurate, then it's actually quite the advantage where it comes to reflect, since you need never penetrate your own resistance - and most other elemental builds will.

According to the wiki:

1. After. "Reflect cares about the damage taken after mitigation, not the amount of life removed."

2. No. "Reflected damage is reduced by the attacker's Armour and resistances. For instance if a player with 75% lightning resistance deals 100 lightning damage to a monster with 20% elemental damage reflection, the player will only take 5 of the reflected 20 lightning damage."

3. By extension to the answer to #2, no.


This link contains the citations.

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Immermnemion wrote:

According to the wiki:

1. After. "Reflect cares about the damage taken after mitigation, not the amount of life removed."

2. No. "Reflected damage is reduced by the attacker's Armour and resistances. For instance if a player with 75% lightning resistance deals 100 lightning damage to a monster with 20% elemental damage reflection, the player will only take 5 of the reflected 20 lightning damage."

3. By extension to the answer to #2, no.


This link contains the citations.

But it didn't contain the case of penetration and ignorance.

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WillisTheWillis wrote:

But it didn't contain the case of penetration and ignorance.

Reflected damage carries no additional properties, so it can't penetrate or ignore resists, cause on hit effects and such

Ignore is a circumstance I'm not certain of. I'm not sure if the resists are forced to zero, regardless of penetration you may have, or if you are allowed to apply penetration to the 0% resistance after you ignored what they had.

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Immermnemion wrote:

Ignore is a circumstance I'm not certain of. I'm not sure if the resists are forced to zero, regardless of penetration you may have, or if you are allowed to apply penetration to the 0% resistance after you ignored what they had.

We had a confirmation that the whole resistance mechanic and everything related to it is just ignored, it doesn't get used in the hit calculation at all.

However, the critical hit has 'ignores resistance' as a special property and that property is lost on reflect along with all others. It's just damage that comes back, nothing else.