A positive opinion about Ascendancy Classes

Since people are replicating negative posts using the same arguments over and over about how ascendancy classes are going to limit build diversity, I thought I'd add my opinion (which is positive) just to try and help balance negative/positive feedback.

Honestly, though, for relevant, well-thought and reasonable feedback and better discussions, everyone should go to reddit as well.

I've never played summoner, which seems to be the most oftenly used example to argue that ascendancy classes are bad, even though we still have to see half of them. So this one ascendancy class does not impact my playstyle at all.

I've played melee elemental damage templars, spellcasting templars, spellcasting witches, melee marauders, bow marauders, melee duelists, crit rangers, crit shadows, scions of all kinds, even messed up with chaos damage a little.

For all the builds I have ever made and builds I plan to make in the future, ascendancy classes are an improvement, and for most of these builds I actually find myself in a position where it's difficult to choose a class because there are so many ascendancy options, instead of the ascendancy options restricting my choices.

For a melee Dreamfeather build, I can see benefits from many ascendancies: raider would improve clear speed greatly; gladiator would ensure Frenzy and Endurance charge uptime; assassin would even enable a Dreamfeather crit build with additions to crit base chance; champion would add more survivability to a build that is pure EV based.

So that's three possible classes I could go for a Dreamfeather melee build, and that's without even seeing the Scion ascendancy.

That was just an example, but this list can go on and on. I can even make a Deadeye Spellcaster with all those projectile mechanics.

Use your creativity people, we're getting more options instead of less.

 Strange how people will condemn new PoE subclasses even before we actually get to use them in a real build and see how they play. I guess it goes hand in hand with anything that takes players out of their PoE comfort zone. From what I have read having 3 subclasses for the 7 main classes to make builds unique for that class is a very good idea. For too long the PoE classes were mostly interchangeable. For example I played a straight up physical crit bow RoA ranger in The Awakening, and switched to a physical crit bow RoA Scion in the Darkshrine League and they play identically for the most part. So for the new subclasses to give us distinct builds that aren't class interchangeable sounds great to me. GGG will hopefully add 2 more subclasses to the give the Scion move loving (in spite of her being a rich bitch before being convicted) before Ascendancy goes live (one subclass is not enough).

So condemning new sub-classes without having played them is the wrong way to view Ascendancy.

I'm not necessarily condemning them, I suppose I'm cautiously optimistic.

Theoretically there will be more build diversity, but in reality there will probably be certain combinations of ascendancy passives that will be much more powerful than others.

I think the main problem I'm having with this though is that you will be forced to play a certain class for a certain build. This has always been the case to a certain extent but this just makes it even more important to choose the right class.

It feels like GGG is trying to cater to the more mainstream aRPG crowd. I get that they want more players and everything, but this takes away from what I considered Path of Exile's uniqueness.

"

Arrowneous wrote:

 Strange how people will condemn new PoE subclasses even before we actually get to use them in a real build and see how they play. I guess it goes hand in hand with anything that takes players out of their PoE comfort zone. From what I have read having 3 subclasses for the 7 main classes to make builds unique for that class is a very good idea. For too long the PoE classes were mostly interchangeable. For example I played a straight up physical crit bow RoA ranger in The Awakening, and switched to a physical crit bow RoA Scion in the Darkshrine League and they play identically for the most part. So for the new subclasses to give us distinct builds that aren't class interchangeable sounds great to me. GGG will hopefully add 2 more subclasses to the give the Scion move loving (in spite of her being a rich bitch before being convicted) before Ascendancy goes live (one subclass is not enough).

So condemning new sub-classes without having played them is the wrong way to view Ascendancy.

+1. Right on the spot.

"

zalfargia wrote:

I think the main problem I'm having with this though is that you will be forced to play a certain class for a certain build. This has always been the case to a certain extent but this just makes it even more important to choose the right class.

You won't. You should be picking X class/sub only if you want to min/max a certain specific build to the absolute extreme; and we know how much currency that takes. Meanwhile the non optimal subclass for that build has -5% effectiveness with the exact same gear and investment, and then you could change your playstyle and adapt gear/links and somehow get a similar effectiveness.
I think the two main things GGG is trying to encourage are:
1. Creative thinking and adaptation.
2. Less pursuit of min/maxing for some specs while giving them flexibility, while better focus and specialization for others in exchange for flexibility.

I think there is a lot of room for synergies that are not obvious in the classes. Some nodes made me think. Like in the Juggernaut class:

"

Undeniable
+8% increased Attack speed
+1000 Accuracy

That looks a lot like a Bowrauder node to me. When I'm using an axe or a mace I'll probably go RT, screw the crits. There is not enough crit chance and multiplier near the Marauder to get excited about a crit build. However, if you are traveling to the right-hand side of the tree for more bow skills things begin to look different...

"

Unstoppable
you cannot be slowed...

Now, that's much more important on a bow user than on a life- and armor-stacking melee berserker in my book. You don't get stunned or frozen that often if you stack life and a melee Marauder will Leap Slam get around chilled ground anyway. Did you note in the video how long it took to get frozen for the Marauder?

"

Unstoppable
100% increased Stun Threshold
double body armor

Again, I see more uses for a bow user here who might only wear an armor chest and go for evasion or hybrid gear for all the green gems otherwise. A pure melee/armor build can get armor nodes easily but this would be valuable for a bow user who travels to the right side, especially the stun threshold!


I think it's too early to decide on yay or nay. Maybe there is a jewel that allows you to take 2 nodes from another class at some point. Probably not but there could be.
I'm carefully optimistic. Especially since I don't really see a min-maxer choosing a witch for a 2-handed sword build anyway. And there is enough room for creative, unusual builds in what I have seen so far.

Obviously theese nodes are useful for almost any builds, 1000 acc and 8% attspeed is really good even if you stay melee since maybe you will save 5-6 passive nodes by not picking up RT.
Not to mention the attack speed, that is usually a thing which is hard to get from passives.

Can't be slowed: you can leap around chilled stuff, but walking trough it brainlessly is a good option, I have friends who ask me to reroll maps which has chilled ground.
Also if you are slowed then you attack/ cast slower which can be lethal.

Double armor, stun threshold: budget builds with cheaper chestpiece?

Btw this Juggernaut looks to be something to-go class for cycloners, I mean they don't even have to stop 'spin to win' if they want endurance charges.



What I am concerned about is the duelist Slayer tree Bane of Legends, does that work like RF's more dmg or it is just an useless modifier? ( still the overkill leech looks strong)

Deadeye can be a decent caster as I look at it, chain, additional projectile.

"

Arrowneous wrote:

 Strange how people will condemn new PoE subclasses even before we actually get to use them in a real build and see how they play. I guess it goes hand in hand with anything that takes players out of their PoE comfort zone. From what I have read having 3 subclasses for the 7 main classes to make builds unique for that class is a very good idea. For too long the PoE classes were mostly interchangeable. For example I played a straight up physical crit bow RoA ranger in The Awakening, and switched to a physical crit bow RoA Scion in the Darkshrine League and they play identically for the most part. So for the new subclasses to give us distinct builds that aren't class interchangeable sounds great to me. GGG will hopefully add 2 more subclasses to the give the Scion move loving (in spite of her being a rich bitch before being convicted) before Ascendancy goes live (one subclass is not enough).

So condemning new sub-classes without having played them is the wrong way to view Ascendancy.

+1

Besides, outright attacking something that hasn't happened yet and you have no way to test it is pointless. Who knows what balance changes and new content are going to happen until/when they release the expansion pack. Reasons I was glad when I saw the Ascendancy announcement:

- what Arrowneous said, meaningful class identity at last
- will allow more build complexity and, hopefully, variety
- reminded me of a thread in feedback I posted months ago in which I appealed at GGG to let players feel more powerful

"

krenderke wrote:

Btw this Juggernaut looks to be something to-go class for cycloners, I mean they don't even have to stop 'spin to win' if they want endurance charges.

Juggernaut is certainly great for cyclone but I'm actually more tempted by Champion or Slayer. Of course that means I would have to level a Duelist all the way to 87 which is probably not going to happen anytime soon.

I'm honestly a bit underwhelmed by Juggernaut compared to the other announced classes for life-stacking melee, especially not for a cycloner who can't be stunned anyway. I'm hoping the other 2 Marauder classes are more to my liking but Juggernaut feels like a convenience class to me. The feeling "I WANT THAT!" just wasn't there like for the other classes.

I really am kinna confused by all the hue and cry over this. I'm a complete rookie idiot in this game and I can still see all manner of interesting ways to use the new skills. Everyone complains about Necromancer obsoleting other summoners...but frankly, weren't summoners sorta already obsolete anyways? I recall reading more than a few posts pre-Ascendancy whilst cruising around trolling for ideas that claimed that summoners were GGG's Forgotten Child. Maybe one summoner class is better than none?

Even with just what we've got so far, there's a lot you can do. The Raider in particular looks to be interesting for 'off-class' melee builds on the Ranger, or enhancing things you normally do on other classes. Avatar of Onslaught could be great with an Innervate build, and I'd be shocked if GGG didn't set up Phase Run to give this new Phasing buff as well, so things like CWDT or CoC Phase Run becomes a hefty defense bonus you can keep up often. On top of, y'know, turning you into an evil war ghost that can go wherever she likes and damn the hordes.

...and now I want the 2.1.0 tree so I can investigate potential CoC Phase Run AoPhasing builds that make me immune to elemental ailments, pump my Dodge chances, and enable screwballery. Time to spend a bunch of money on Ghostflame effects for everything...

ANYWAYS. Seriously - if a total rookie idiot can look at these and start coming up with offbeat funky things to do (like CoC Phase Run because WHY NOT), why is everyone else having such a hard time?

"

zalfargia wrote:

I'm not necessarily condemning them, I suppose I'm cautiously optimistic.

Theoretically there will be more build diversity, but in reality there will probably be certain combinations of ascendancy passives that will be much more powerful than others.

I think the main problem I'm having with this though is that you will be forced to play a certain class for a certain build. This has always been the case to a certain extent but this just makes it even more important to choose the right class.

It feels like GGG is trying to cater to the more mainstream aRPG crowd. I get that they want more players and everything, but this takes away from what I considered Path of Exile's uniqueness.

I pretty much agree with the first two paragraphs, but don't agree with the latter two.

The thing about "viability" is that it's relative, not absolute. Enemy difficulty is irrelevant, there will always be hundreds if not thousands of builds which can technically conquer the PvE content, what matters is how quickly they're able to do so, and/or how braindead you can get away with playing while you're doing it. Ascendancy classes will shake this up initially, but when the dust settles unless everything is extraordinarily well-balanced against each other you're going to end up with a small number of flavor-of-the-months which people say dominate the metagame, and if you look at what people actually choose to play they won't be wrong.

Do not get me wrong: I'm not saying Ascendancy classes will limit build diversity. I mean, they might, slightly, or they might expand it, slightly. But I don't expect any fundamental change in how the metagame operates. Out with the old flavor-of-the-months, in with the new, maybe a few more flavors than last time, maybe a few less, still business as usual.

That said, I still think Ascendancy classes are a move in the right direction. It adds a choice in which class to pick, beyond whether you want the first five nodes of Class A versus the first five nodes of Class B, with the rest of the tree identical in both versions. And that's assuming some of those five nodes wouldn't be taken by both versions of the build anyway. Now, balancing that choice, between Class A and Class B for a variety of build choices, that's a task, but not an impossible one. Overall, I approve, because it makes build design a lot more interesting. Granted, not everyone engages in build design, and the xeroxing will continue pretty much the same as it does now, but for those of us who theorycraft more than we play the Ascendancy classes are a welcome addition.