Block & Pen (Some problems and wrong solutions)

If someone would ask me what annoys me at most, I would say block/dodge mechanics. So many casters are going for a max block, leaving everyone else with that broken trash gem, named "Block Chance Reduction". What an useless waste of one green socket! Until you got some godlike dps, you will be owned twice before you even land one single hit, simply because of RNG based block/dodge crap. The block CAP should be lowered, imo. If this would be done, the BCR gem can be removed from this game once and for all, so we can use the green socket for something more useful. Like, when this gem was released, I was kinda hyped at first. Like, "Yay, no more blockheads!", "Yay, screw you aegis builds!" But man, to be honest this is not a right solution to the problem. The block feels OP, when it goes over 40-50% or so, so why do we need a gem, that cuts some block out? Why not just lower the block cap in PvP? Same as, let's say Molten Shell is OP in right hands, so let's "solve" the problem by adding a new cluster to the tree with nodes like: Reduce opponents Molten Shell critical chance by 150%, or Reduce opponents Molten Shell damage by 50%. lol. Rather than adjust Molten's damage scaling regarding to PvP, let's add some nodes that people can pick and feel safe. Nah, that's not the solution. In case something does not work right (opopopop), you have to solve the problem where it comes from, not by adding some countering green gems and stuff like that.

One more thing I want to point out are these fancy "Phys. Damage Reflect" nodes in Shadows part of the tree. Are they meant to be for PvP, or? Anyone found them useful in PvE? Doubt so. Anyone found them useful in PvP against top phys. damage builds? Doubt it also. The amount of reflected damage is simply miserable. Any build with like 0.3% of life regen. won't even feel that something was reflected. On top of that as we know reflect can be also blocked/dodged, so honestly, I don't see any scenario where that 15% phys. reflect might be useful. So guys, if that was a SOLUTION towards to counter top phys. damage builds in PvP, unfortunately you failed. Same as with adding BCR gem.

Like, no offence to anyone, guys. It's more like cry from the heart :'(

Thank you for your patience, cheers!

RichGrumpyWitch

I feel that BR gems serves a point, and it is to reduce dmg. It reduces your 6L setup to a 5L setup + BR, and since the dmg output in HLD is so high it is a good thing imo.

Having different caps for stats in PvE and PvP is not a good thing imo.

I don't see dodge as a problem. Life characters on the right part of the tree can pickup max 5-5.5 k life with very good gear (no kaom), would u feel safer with 10k es or 5k hp and dodge? If your answer is 5/dodge than why don't u pick it up with your Rich char that has 10k es or so?

If Dodge was removed/lowered most dodge 1h/shield chars would go 8-10k ES/CI or low life.

Remember when dodge was 30/20 on tree? Everyone considered it trash and no one used it.

Right, if I could land a hit as strong as you do, I prolly wouldn't bother. I know how bad max. block + tempest feels, it's like a gamble, and very often it ends like you simply owned yourself due to reflect from tempest, even failing to land some decent hits to your opponent.

75% block chance is a LOT by any meanings, and this is not something that is hard to reach. You have to put much more effort in to your damage, balanced res. and decent life/es pool, rather than just stack 75% block chance with some passives and pretty cheap and affordable gear.

My point is simple, 75% is too much, imo. As being a caster I know what I am talking about, mate. Like, seriously, it's way too much.

In case of dodge/block combo it's even more insane, but I am not talking about dodge atm.

They should make it a flat reduction just like ele pen gems

"

missuse wrote:

I feel that BR gems serves a point, and it is to reduce dmg. It reduces your 6L setup to a 5L setup + BR, and since the dmg output in HLD is so high it is a good thing imo.

Having different caps for stats in PvE and PvP is not a good thing imo.

I don't see dodge as a problem. Life characters on the right part of the tree can pickup max 5-5.5 k life with very good gear (no kaom), would u feel safer with 10k es or 5k hp and dodge? If your answer is 5/dodge than why don't u pick it up with your Rich char that has 10k es or so?

If Dodge was removed/lowered most dodge 1h/shield chars would go 8-10k ES/CI or low life.

Remember when dodge was 30/20 on tree? Everyone considered it trash and no one used it.

Missuse,your life char with block, dodge and evasion is better than someone with 10k es and no dodge, block evasion(sure you could get block but that's it), so ci is only viable with a shield, sadly

"

Tommie_Sjukskriven wrote:

They should make it a flat reduction just like ele pen gems

"

missuse wrote:

I feel that BR gems serves a point, and it is to reduce dmg. It reduces your 6L setup to a 5L setup + BR, and since the dmg output in HLD is so high it is a good thing imo.

Having different caps for stats in PvE and PvP is not a good thing imo.

I don't see dodge as a problem. Life characters on the right part of the tree can pickup max 5-5.5 k life with very good gear (no kaom), would u feel safer with 10k es or 5k hp and dodge? If your answer is 5/dodge than why don't u pick it up with your Rich char that has 10k es or so?

If Dodge was removed/lowered most dodge 1h/shield chars would go 8-10k ES/CI or low life.

Remember when dodge was 30/20 on tree? Everyone considered it trash and no one used it.

Missuse,your life char with block, dodge and evasion is better than someone with 10k es and no dodge, block evasion(sure you could get block but that's it), so ci is only viable with a shield, sadly

only better for hits that can 1 shoot me but not the 10 es dude, if you need 2 hits to one shoot the 10 k es dude and 1 to one shoot me than 10 es dude has the upper hand. From my experience not many can one shoot 10k es, perhaps bow users only and trappers.

Its quite clear 10k es is at least equal to 5k hp/ acro since no CI or low life takes acro. At least I haven't met one.

Evasion does not work that great as people think it does. Not just it is utterly useless against RT and casters, but even vs accuracy users. Just crunch some numbers with the acc/eva formula and you will see. Its okish vs bow users with mid acc if u have ondars and thats it. On the other hand bow users can use added accuracy and block pen and still one shoot me with the remaining 4L. Btw added accuracy gem negates any gain from evasion even if you use grace and have ondars.

That said, I also would prefer if the block pen gems was flat reduction.

Flat reduction is exactly what block reduction gem and tree nodes need. Back when I first started talking about a gem like this I co.pared it to the elemental penetration gems and hoped ggg would of implemented it the same way. Back then there was much more block reduction on the tree so it was semi understandable it didn't turn out that way. Now with the gem and tree nerfs its only fitting GGG ditch the multiplicative and went flat.

I got your points of view, guys. Thanks for the feedback.

Ok, so I was in arena like 10 min ago and met one witch there, won't tell the name, doesn't matter. So the thing is, he had 4.5k life & acro+max block. I asked him to test in how many hits I gonna kill him. It took me 22 casts (with echo), so it's 22*2=44 (!) hits to kill that guy. He was not using any flasks, doesn't have any life regen, so he was just standing and prolly laughing about how f****d up this thing is. I just needed to land like few (2-4) successful hits (not even crits, lol) to kill that guy, this means like ~40 of my hit's failed. Is this a joke, or what? Even though, I have to point out that he had an IC setup, but I was pretty accurate to skip these moments and stop casting when IC popped out, since I use EK, if someone doesn't know.

Next I went to my stash to bring this BCR gem and see what difference it will make. Well, won't lie, it made pretty positive effect against blocking, not dodging ofc.

"

letmeknov wrote:

I got your points of view, guys. Thanks for the feedback.

Ok, so I was in arena like 10 min ago and met one witch there, won't tell the name, doesn't matter. So the thing is, he had 4.5k life & acro+max block. I asked him to test in how many hits I gonna kill him. It took me 22 casts (with echo), so it's 22*2=44 (!) hits to kill that guy. He was not using any flasks, doesn't have any life regen, so he was just standing and prolly laughing about how f****d up this thing is. I just needed to land like few (2-4) successful hits (not even crits, lol) to kill that guy, this means like ~40 of my hit's failed. Is this a joke, or what? Even though, I have to point out that he had an IC setup, but I was pretty accurate to skip these moments and stop casting when IC popped out, since I use EK, if someone doesn't know.

Next I went to my stash to bring this BCR gem and see what difference it will make. Well, won't lie, it made pretty positive effect against blocking, not dodging ofc.

that is completely same to my experience. If my opponent does not use BCR he lucky if he can hit me ever. To be honest BCR seems a lot more potent than what the numbers would say.

lets take the case of 60 block and 40 dodge


with no BCR: 0,4 * 0,6 = 24% chance to hit
with 20/20 BCR: 0,604 * 0,6 = 36% chance to hit

but in reality it closer to 50-60% chance to hit with BCR and about 10-20% without. I've done semi serious testing with about 100 repetitions.

So the conclusion is, ggg are forcing us to use that gem while you are in arena with many different classes/builds, and switch it to something more useful when you are dueling a single char, if you assume/know he does not have block at all, or have a little. That how it looks to me, and it feels odd.

I don't like the way of resolving this issue by giving us this gem, cos this way of solution feels kinda cheap, duct taped, without any effort to fix it.

some pvpers stacking high 1 shoot of damage facing blocker who stack high block // this is balanced remove 1 gem from your set to have block reduction will solve his high defense and your high 1 shoot of damg. Going for Blocks defense means no high armour neither high evasion (useless against spells or RT)


and guess what XD blocks is useless against 2 hand sword with block reduction nodes and block reduction gem.

reduce your offense nodes and take some defense nodes.


ppl are crying because they can't beat every build in pvp XD.