Evasion at endgame

Is evasion at endgame better for a CI build or is it better to pick up Iron Reflexes?

Mostly, I am wondering if evasion helps against big hits and bosses more than armor? Also, is it more helpful against reflect damage if my accuracy is ~85%?

A little more info:
1. I currently have 46% evasion with grace turned on.
2. My passive tree is

Eva vs. IR is an ongoing debate. The armour advocates love to say 'the math has been done'. The math cannot account for player reflexes. Both are viable. Armour will allow you to face tank more often while Eva will net you more defense per point investment.

What it comes down to is playstyle. If you want to stand there and ignore the mobs hitting on you then armour works but you will have to have better gear/more passive investment. If you enjoy a more active playstyle, and want a few more points to play with, Eva is the way to go but requires quick reflexes and good situational awareness.

Thanks for the reply.

I am a bit confused about what you mean by eva works better with quick reflexes and awareness. I thought that, with manual dodging and repositioning (such as by whirling blades), defense works better. It is usually a random burst that forces me to run around and recover ES.

As for the passive point cost, I agree but I can't decide what to do. 8 passive points can give me something like:
1. IR: I would get IR and 7th frenzy charge.
2. Balanced: Ondar's Guile, +18% ES, +12% dagger damage, +20% accuracy
3. YOLO: I could get +70% crit multiplier (bringing total from 504% to 574% for 14% more crit damage) and +25% crit chance
4. some combination of 3 and 4


PS:
I tend to use flicker strike, reave, frenzy, and sometimes spectral throw depending on the situation/how I feel that day. Although I don't see any guides on crit dagger cyclone/whirling blades in the front page, I think IR might make it safe enough to add cyclone and whirling blades (?) to that list of green attack gems.

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Zhen wrote:

Thanks for the reply.

I am a bit confused about what you mean by eva works better with quick reflexes and awareness. I thought that, with manual dodging and repositioning (such as by whirling blades), defense works better. It is usually a random burst that forces me to run around and recover ES.

I didn't say "does better with". I said "requires". This is why they are both viable. If you manually avoid as much as possible Eva will take care of the rest. While armour allows for more flexibilty in you movements (or maybe lack thereof) by letting you take more hits.

They both have advantages -
The thing that Eva has up on Armour is single target survivability. While armour may reduce incoming dmg quite a bit there are still 1 shot scenarios always looming. But whit the right setup (acceptable amounts of Eva + enfeeble + blind + some block) hard hitting single target physical dmg is quite literally non existent. I have an eva tank that can stand in front of Kole for 5 mins and take 2-3 hits the whole time. Plus the fact that with Eva you can still pop a granite and get a nifty little boost of dmg reduction. My CoC shadow can go from 1% dmg reduction to ~50% with flasks while still retaining ~50% evasion.

IR shines in multi target situations by making dmg MUCH easier to handle. Instead of the occasional 'Oh shit i got hit a couple times gtfo', you get a steady stream of small dmg that you can leech/flask through. It gives you more breathing room for mistakes or even allows you to straight face tank many things you otherwise wouldn't be able to. the major drawback is you are stuck with 1 type of defense since you loose all evasion chance.

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I tend to use flicker strike, reave, frenzy, and sometimes spectral throw depending on the situation/how I feel that day. Although I don't see any guides on crit dagger cyclone/whirling blades in the front page, I think IR might make it safe enough to add cyclone and whirling blades (?) to that list of green attack gems.

Cyclone and Eva don't mix well. Since you need to be able to move around a lot cyclone is counter intuitive. So I wouldn't mess with it unless you take IR. WB is trash as a dmging skill. It's late game dmg potential is nothing short of laughable. It is a movement skill and that is all.

I like a good mix of both, since there's a diminishing returns when you stack only one.

The nice thing about Evasion is your ES regens between hits.

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Zhen wrote:

Is evasion at endgame better for a CI build or is it better to pick up Iron Reflexes?

Mostly, I am wondering if evasion helps against big hits and bosses more than armor? Also, is it more helpful against reflect damage if my accuracy is ~85%?

A little more info:
1. I currently have 46% evasion with grace turned on.
2. My passive tree is

passive tree

Passive skill tree build

For CI, ES is the main defence, obviously. And, to be honest, just a bulk of ES and capped resists is all CI melee/archer need to survive.
Evasion isnt effective against big hits and bosses, as well as armour. And both do nothing against spells.
Same could be said about oneshots from reflect.
I, personally, just stack ES and dont care about armour or evasion. US for me is free stun-immunity.

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feyith wrote:

I like a good mix of both, since there's a diminishing returns when you stack only one.

The nice thing about Evasion is your ES regens between hits.

no. evasion has diminishing returns. armor, on the other hand, actually gets better the more of it you stack, and is one of the reasons it's generally preferred

ignore the defense tab, the estimates are useless. look at the evade excel sheet and the armor charts on the wiki instead


basically, at low amounts, eva will be more mitigation. you only need 3000ish to have 30-40 real evade chance. however, you can stack to 10k and still not get 50% real evade chance. and while mathematically, it's more mitigation on extreme spike damage targets like map kole and badly rolled devourers...without something like MoM or lit coil, you're pretty much gonna get one shotted every time they actually do hit you

armor, on the other hand, mitigates basically 0 damage until 2k. by 10k, however, you're practically invincible to most trash mobs. also helps mitigate dangerous phys spells like EK and eva bombs




generally, evade alone is not viable as damage mitigation. however, since it can be so effective with so little investment, it's an excellent supplement to other defenses like dodge, block, AA, etc

I don't really see how reflexes ever come into play. it's not like eva lets you actually move faster...if you can manually dodge something with an eva build, you can dodge it in an armor build..........

Thanks for all the advice.

With what I have currently, Iron Reflexes would grant me a total of 7.7k armor with grace aura, so I'm sure I can get to 10k armor if I change out pieces of my base 170% IIR welfare gear.

I think I will first try out Iron Reflexes simply because it is something different. I can always spec those 6-8 points away if I feel it does not work out.

I'm going for EV/ES hybrid. Still 38% chance to Evade. Let's see how it works.