Question regarding Armor/evasion and Iron reflexes.
" Mark has been this tested recently? Kripparrian stated in 1 of his videos, that when you get Leather Steel only 1 bonus applies, not both. And i asked him on stream, saying what you say and he answered that he had empirical prove because he tested it, and its working as he said. I guess Kripp is wrong, but i want some confirmation. | |
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Since Grace gives an integer value I'm assuming it gets added to your evasion rating before the Evasion%s and the Armor%s are added to Evasion and before the conversion of evasion into armor. Same with Molten Armor for Armor.
But, here are what I'm confused about and hopefully the dev or some hardcore player can clarify. Someone will deliver! -When is the % evasion from Dex added? Is it added additively with all the other passive evasion%s? -When is Determination% -What about Armor from Granite flasks? When does that play into the calculations? -If I get the 4% Evasion per Frenzy Charge passive when in the order of operations is the 4% added into the armor calculations? -While we are on the subject when is the % HP from Str added? Again, is it added additively with all the other % HP passives? IGNs- Gyeff // Greff // Gyaff Last edited by geffreyy on Dec 20, 2012, 11:57:18 PM
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^Yes, integer armour/EV is treated the same no matter the source; the bonuses from Grace and granite flasks are included in your base total along with gear.
All percentage "increased" mods are additive. In this case that's everything except Determination's "x% more armour" which applies to the final armour value. All "x% increased maximum life" mods likewise sum, whether from the str bonus, tree or items. RE your earlier post: " It doesn't matter whether your armour/shield is a pure armour/EV or hybrid piece. Evasion is affected by increased armour because it's converted into armour :) Defences on shields are treated just like those from any other piece of gear. " If everything works as intended then Leather and Steel and armour nodes do the same thing. Evasion nodes will only apply to evasion so you should avoid those unless you don't have armour from gear (or plan to use granite flasks). Last edited by hubb on Dec 21, 2012, 6:10:03 PM
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"Yes, Leather and Steel has a single bonus, which applies only once to a given value - that's the same as what I posted, but put in a different way. | |
" Then i dont understand, looking at your previous post: If you have 100 base armour, 100 base evasion, 10% increased armour, 20% increased evasion, and 24% increased armour and evasion (from Leather and Steel), then: From evasion: 100 x (1 + 0.10 + 0.20 + 0.24) = 100 x 1.54 = 154 armour From armour: 100 x (1 + 0.10 + 0.24) = 100 x 1.34 = 134 armour Total armour: 288 You are using the 24% from armour and evasion there, Krip said you only get 24% armour or 24% evasion not both. You say thats correct but your math is showing the opposite. I dont get it. leave you the link at the exact moment he says that so you can see tell me if he is saying correct or not. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=PyCTK5sYT3E#t=329s Because if what krips says is correct, you have to remove 0.24 from 1 of your lines in the math. Edit: i think i understand it, tell me if this is right This is Ir formula: Base armour * ( 1 +%increased armour ) + base evasion * ( 1 + %increased armour + %increased evasion ) So the Leather steel bonus doesnt applied to the increase armour in the 2d part of the equation, is that what krip and you mean here? Last edited by Darion88 on Dec 23, 2012, 8:59:34 PM
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Kripp's wording at the end is wrong, but he's trying to say the right thing. I think. He states that converted evasion is increased by both evasion and armour increases, then goes on to say that this isn't true for leather and steel.
Previously leather and steel had a 24% (taking this example) increase to armour, and a separate 24% increase to evasion. Since both armour and evasion bonuses apply to converted evasion this meant that these separate bonuses applied and gave you a 48% bonus to converted evasion. Leather and steel now gives a single 24% increase to armour and evasion, which means that the bonus isn't applied twice. *edit: Didn't properly read your edit, you have it right there. Last edited by hubb on Dec 24, 2012, 4:51:24 AM
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"I'm saying it's correct that a single bonus applies, because there is only one bonus. Leather and Steel only ever has one bonus to apply - there is never a way to apply 'both' because the word both must apply to two things. Leather and Steel has one bonus, which applies whenever increases to armour or to evasion are calculated. "You're getting there. it's: Base armour * ( 1 + all increases that apply to armour ) + Base evasion (converted to armour) * ( 1 + all increases that apply to armour or evasion ) Note that "all increases that apply to armour or evasion" is not the same as "all increases that apply to armour" + all increases that apply to evasion", because some are in both groups. Leather and Steel is a bonus that applies to armour, and it's a bonus that applies to armour or evasion, so it appears in each of the above sets of modifiers. It does not appear twice in the second set, because it's one increase. The game does not total all increases that would apply to armour and all increases that would apply to evasion, and then sum them, because then you're counting some of them twice (such as L&S, and the "increased defences from shield" nodes). It sums all bonuses that could apply to armour or to evasion, counting each one once, and applies those. You can't split it out into armour-only increases and evasion-only increases, because Leather and Steel is neither. It's a single bonus that applies if armour or evasion is increased. Just like how an elemental damage increase applies to any of fire, cold or lightning damage, but is not doubled when using the cold to fire support gem. Last edited by Mark_GGG on Dec 25, 2012, 3:24:32 PM
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Really thx mark, now i understand better.
when i was theorycrafting i was doing thigs wrong like this: Armor 100 evasion 100 bonus 8% armor and 8% evasion(leather steel) 100*(1+8%)+100 (1+8%+8%) So now if i understand well it should be 100*(1+8%)+100 (1+8%) oh and now that you mentioned it, the "increased defences from shield" that would go in the "all increases that apply to armour" part right? or in both? i guess if it is in both it doesnt matter because shield are armor or evasion so they affect in the equation more in the Base armor or evasion, than in the increased bonus. and thx again for answering in christmas(my bday), i ll take it like a Bday present =P Last edited by Darion88 on Dec 26, 2012, 9:42:16 AM
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Just wondering if anyone can help me confirm this:
Does getting Iron Reflexes add 3 to evasion? Without Iron Reflexes, I'm able to calculate the exact same amount for both evasion and armor. However, when I have Iron Reflexes, I'm always off by a small amount. So while trying to figure out what was I wrong, I decided to add 3 evasion to the base evasion, and even with differing % modifiers, I'm able to get the same amount that shows on my in-game character screen. Is anyone else able to duplicate/confirm this? | |
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I´m not sure if I got this right.
When using Iron reflexes the evasion rating gets increased by all modifiers that have evasion increase in it (like leather and steel), next it is added to the base armour and increased by all modifiers that increase armour but not evasion. So for example: base armour 100, base evasion 100, 10% armour, 10% evasion, 10% armour and evasion evasion 100 * ( 1 + 10% evasion + 10% armour and evasion ) = 120 armour armour ( 100 * ( 1 + 10% armour and evasion ) = 110 ( 110 + 120 ) * ( 1 + 10% armour ) = 253 Is that correct? Last edited by theF1ash on Feb 4, 2013, 7:06:15 PM
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