Question regarding Armor/evasion and Iron reflexes.

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EpsiIon wrote:

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iao wrote:

In the case of Iron Reflexes, the order of calculation goes accordingly: all effects to your accumulated Evasion Rating (Grace and your equipment, in this case) are applied, then the Total Evasion Rating is converted to Armor, and then all effects to Armor are applied to the sum.

This doesn't seem to be the case, I get substantially more effect from a 10% Evasion node, using iron reflexes, then I do from a 10% armor node. Also, the 30% evasion node is noticably more effective then leather and steel big node.

I believe the devs specifically nerfed this, how and the particulars escape me

That's not a nerf - the conversion has never worked liked that. That would be incredibly overpowered, as it would make the additive bonuses to evasion and additive bonuses to armour be multiplicative with each other.

Anytime the game converts one stat to another, the converted amount is affected by total modifiers to both.
All your base evasion is affected by your total modifiers to evasion and to armour, and you get the result as armour. All your base armour is affected as normal only by increases to armour.

If you have 100 base armour, 100 base evasion, 10% increased armour, 20% increased evasion, and 24% increased armour and evasion (from Leather and Steel), then:
From evasion: 100 x (1 + 0.10 + 0.20 + 0.24) = 100 x 1.54 = 154 armour
From armour: 100 x (1 + 0.10 + 0.24) = 100 x 1.34 = 134 armour
Total armour: 288

This is exactly the same as how all conversion in the game works, such as converting damage. Anytime some amount of a stat is converted, that base value is affected by the total of modifiers that affect either stat.

The only thing that's changed about this is that when originally implemented, Leather and Steel did something different. It used to provide two separate bonuses: 24% increased evasion, and 24% increased armour. Those were separate bonuses, and thus any evasion converted to armour by iron reflexes was affected by both, which was not the intent of the nodes. They are now one bonus providing a 24% increase to evasion and armour, and thus apply only once to each value.

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Darion88 wrote:

Mark has been this tested recently? Kripparrian stated in 1 of his videos, that when you get Leather Steel only 1 bonus applies, not both.
And i asked him on stream, saying what you say and he answered that he had empirical prove
because he tested it, and its working as he said.
I guess Kripp is wrong, but i want some confirmation.

Yes, Leather and Steel has a single bonus, which applies only once to a given value - that's the same as what I posted, but put in a different way.

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Darion88 wrote:

You are using the 24% from armour and evasion there, Krip said you only get 24% armour or 24% evasion not both. You say thats correct but your math is showing the opposite.

I'm saying it's correct that a single bonus applies, because there is only one bonus. Leather and Steel only ever has one bonus to apply - there is never a way to apply 'both' because the word both must apply to two things. Leather and Steel has one bonus, which applies whenever increases to armour or to evasion are calculated.

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Darion88 wrote:

Edit: i think i understand it, tell me if this is right
This is Ir formula:
Base armour * ( 1 +%increased armour ) + base evasion * ( 1 + %increased armour + %increased evasion )
So the Leather steel bonus doesnt applied to the increase armour in the 2d part of the equation, is that what krip and you mean here?

You're getting there. it's:
Base armour * ( 1 + all increases that apply to armour ) +
Base evasion (converted to armour) * ( 1 + all increases that apply to armour or evasion )
Note that "all increases that apply to armour or evasion" is not the same as "all increases that apply to armour" + all increases that apply to evasion", because some are in both groups.

Leather and Steel is a bonus that applies to armour, and it's a bonus that applies to armour or evasion, so it appears in each of the above sets of modifiers. It does not appear twice in the second set, because it's one increase. The game does not total all increases that would apply to armour and all increases that would apply to evasion, and then sum them, because then you're counting some of them twice (such as L&S, and the "increased defences from shield" nodes). It sums all bonuses that could apply to armour or to evasion, counting each one once, and applies those.

You can't split it out into armour-only increases and evasion-only increases, because Leather and Steel is neither. It's a single bonus that applies if armour or evasion is increased. Just like how an elemental damage increase applies to any of fire, cold or lightning damage, but is not doubled when using the cold to fire support gem.