Theorycrafting my first OB character
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I have played quite a few characters to various levels and have learned a lot in doing so. I have been trying to plan my character for the launch of open beta. I have decided that I will probably make a melee character, and all things considered I am now thinking Dualist will offer me the best starting point. This is my opinion on how it will be best for me to do it. I do not expect everyone to agree with me, but if anyone is interested to read this then you may get a few usual ideas from it.
What active skills do I want to use?
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Area of effect damage is important at high levels. I can get by with single targeting at low levels, but I want to switch to AoE damage as soon as possible. There are 4 main AoE melee skills: Sweep, Ground Slam, Lightning Strike and Cleave. I want to use Sweep. It is better than cleave in every way. It hits more targets than ground slam and requires less supports than lightning strike. It does require a two-handed axe, mace or staff and that means no shield, however it would be difficult for my build to use a shield anyway (more on that later).
I want a single target attack. In the long run I might be able to make sweep hit so hard that I do not need any other attack, but until that I need something that hits harder. There are several options here, but I will use Heavy Strike. I cannot fully explain why without getting ahead of myself, so I will explain it later. I will say that since I use single target against bosses and rare monsters it is nice to have defensive properties on this skill, and heavy strike does at least have good stun. I want endurance charges. I will use both Enduring Cry and Warlords Mark. Cry to keep charges up only when I cannot do it with Mark. Eventually I will have a 20% quality mark and cry will rarely be needed. I want a defensive curse. I will take Enfeeble simply because I feel Chains needs an Increased Duration support. I would like to end up with both of my curses sharing two supports, and I would like to support them with Faster Casting and Reduced Mana Cost. Enfeeble also makes me less likely to die to lots of small hits, like Spark. I want a movement skill. I will take Leap Slam as it allows me to get into the middle of a group and sweep them. It also allows me to move up and down ledges etc. My 7th and final hotkey slot will be used for Blood Rage (more on this later). What armour type will I use?
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In the long run I want to be using Energy Shield. Going CI not only gives you a bigger life pool, but it makes you immune to chaos damage, allows you to use Blood Rage without penalty (4% life leech and 3 or more frenzy charges), and allows you to use the Melee Damage on Full Life support gem. This is a big point. When you go physical with MDoFL support you kind of need to use the elemental conversions from Added Fire Damage and Hatred in order to get really good damage. That means you need to use a Weapon Elemental Damage support *along with the standard Melee Physical Damage and Faster attacks), which costs you an extra support gem slot. It also means you need some Weapon Elemental Damage passives and it makes you vulnerable to elemental reflection. MDoFL support bypasses all of this as physical reflection can be tanked with granite flasks.
I find ES to be weak early game, as I need higher level gear to boost it (as apposed to just passives in +life). With dualist being so far from CI I obviously need to start with a life build and switch to CI later. This is good as I can use whatever type of Armour or Evasion gear I find as I am levelling towards maps. CI does have some weaknesses. Namely Stun and Shock. I will be taking Unwavering Stance for Stun immunity. I will take IR with it and run grace along with discipline and purity. This gives me a bit of damage reduction against weak monsters and adds to my granite flasks against stronger monsters. Eventually I will have the chance to take Avoid Shock passives. What weapon type will I use?
Spoiler
The build can work with two handed axes, maces or staves. I have avoided taking anything that ties it to a specific weapon type, so I can just use the best weapons that I have.
How will I allocate passive points?
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Firstly, I will be killing all 3 bandits for the extra passive point. I wont need Life as I will be using CI. I wont need mana as I am only running 3 auras and I will have 2% mana leech from passives.
I need to decide when to switch from life to CI. At first I thought I would do it as I start maps. However, I dont think I will have enough points for it at level 60. So, I decided to make the switch when I move from level 60 maps to level 61 maps, which will be at character level 68 (83 passive points). This also allows me to collect some ES gear from level 60 maps, if needed. Here is the passive tree up to level 68. It is fairly obvious as to which order I will allocate the points as it mostly follows one path. Here are the passives after switching to CI at level 68. After I use the 16 passive respec points from quests, not too many orbs of regret are needed. Here are the passives at level 80. The defenses have been increased. Note that a lot more armour nodes have been added, as by this point I should be able to run with 4 granite flasks (at least 1% mana leech on gear, as well as my 2% from passives). Here is the tree at 85. I do not know if I will even get to 85, but it ends with the anti-shock nodes being added. This is because I guess that shock will be the biggest problem for this character in high level maps. What linked skill gems will I use?
Spoiler
Going CI melee is a problem because you cannot get enough red and green sockets. This build gets around that problem in a few ways. Firstly, we have a two handed weapon that can get 4-6 sockets and have more chance of red sockets. Secondly, since we are going pure physical (avoids ele reflect, more leech) we do not need as many red support gems on our attacks. As an additional note, when we first switch to CI we might struggle with socket colours, so we can use an armour/ES hybrid boots or gloves for a while. We can also use a blue item rarity or increased AoE in a fifth socket.
While levelling to 68 we may use some different gems, such as leech. Our final gems will be: Sweep Melee Physical Damage Faster Attacks Melee Damage on Full Life Item Rarity Heavy Strike Melee Physical Damage Faster Attacks Melee Damage on Full Life Item Rarity Discipline Grace Purity Reduced Mana Cost Enfeeble Warlods Mark Faster Casting Reduced Mana Cost Blood Rage Enduring Cry Leap Slam Faster Attacks Note that sockets colours are reasonable for a 2 handed weapon and ES gear: RRRGB, RRRGB, RGBB, RRBB, RRGG. If I cannot afford to get the RRGG or RRRGB then I can (drop the item rarity and) use hybrid boots or gloves for a while. Also note that Concentrated Effect is a blue gem. If I were to get 6L I would have the option of running this with IAoE, but would have to drop the item rarity. Last edited by hzflank#7985 on Nov 18, 2012, 1:53:17 AM
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You were basically saying you'd play my build until I saw CI and you lost me. Why are you playing duelist with intentions of getting CI? I'm all for unique builds but I don't understand this at all. It sounds like you are making a shadow/templar in duelist skin.
I mean you seem to be going eva/es gear and the only thing you really grab on the way to CI is ES and mana nodes. While the only reason I can think of making a CI duelist is for access to US and quicker access to IR as nothing else you've gotten down there seems all that useful. I don't understand it and it seems more frustrating than fun. A build like this is going to struggle to get to 80 because you're spending most of your points in stats. Also that transition from life to ES means you'll have to be using armor/eva or eva gear to high 50s to low 60s so you'll need to craft/buy two completely different sets of gear. TBH the more I think about this build the more it seems like an ineffective version of mine. Mine already struggles mid game getting to mara area, I can't imagine what your's will go through. Also I think in the end mine will be generally more powerful in every way unless you get luckier with gear than I do. So I'll say it again, this whole idea baffles me. I'd really suggest getting a test toon up to 80 before doing this in OB. Finished 17th in Rampage - Peaked at 11th
Finished 18th in Torment/Bloodline 1mo Race - peaked at 9th Null's Inclination Build 2.1.0 - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1559063 Summon Skeleton 1.3 - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1219856 |
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I have tested similar but starting as a ranger and templar. I did not start by trying to make a dualist. The starting point was: I want CI/GR/US/IR, I want to get at least 16 points into life nodes before I do the CI switch, I wanted two 2-handed weapon clusters. Dualist just fits best.
I have tried the CI switch in cruel, ruthless and merciless. I have tried this without the use of my main stash on my main default account. I start by just using whatever evasion/armour gear I can get my hands on. When I am approaching the CI switch I bank any good ES items I find, along with base ES items for crafting. I find that I need a good ES chest and helm, and often have to use a hybrid item in the glove or boots slot as I do not want to waste too many chroms at that point. It is basically a full gear switch when I take CI (might keep the same belt etc). Fwiw, I have managed this in the turbo-hardcore league from a ranger start (but using cleave instead of sweep), but I switched to CI at 53. The thing I did not like was that you dont get really good ES gear until about that level, which means CI is not great before 50 anyway. And since I would prefer to get IR/US, delaying the CI switch until 68 seems appropriate. This build will have more life than a mara at 68 anyway. I do not really see the weakness. The build opens with melee damage at the dualist start, gets two life clusters, then a mana cluster. Then two more life clusters, another mana cluster and then another damage cluster. Then it can get 3 more life clusters. Where is the weak point? TLDR: the point is CI is stronger in the later game that the early game. Life is stronger in the early game. Doing a Life > CI switch gives you the best of both worlds. -Edit: if you have an idea of how to do this better with shadow or templar that is great. I just do not see what they offer over dualist. Ranger or Witch have some upsides, but also downsides. Edit 2: what do you need from the Mara area? There is more Life in the Ranger area, and you already have Golem's blood anyway. Last edited by hzflank#7985 on Nov 18, 2012, 3:36:41 AM
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I go to mara for life, troll's blood, resists, higher max resist and at the time RT.
You just mentioned the duelists opening area, sweet I'm talking about the stretch from cruel to ruthless which is the same area I had trouble with. At that time life isn't that easy to get, damage is poor (unless you are making him as your second toon and can afford to reroll sockets on good gear) and speaking from my build, before BM using mana sucks ass. Look you can try this out but I don't see the reason for it at all. I see no benefit in using CI nor do I see what's useful along the tree that you are getting on the way. I still suggest doing this build in default to as high as you can get it before jumping in with both feet when OB hits. Finished 17th in Rampage - Peaked at 11th
Finished 18th in Torment/Bloodline 1mo Race - peaked at 9th Null's Inclination Build 2.1.0 - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1559063 Summon Skeleton 1.3 - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1219856 |
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id swap heavy strike for flicker,unless flicker dsyncs you in which case heavy strike is safer
some of my IGNs:
EKDDtemplar/DualTotemSparkfotm/jesusbestjewever/EverhardDick/SilSol/SilSol_eight/SilSol_seven/ SilSol_ten/FiretemplarwithAA/JesusFacebreaker/SilSol_three/SilSol_two/grumpycatbestgodever |
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