Thinking Outside the Box: What if we had dust instead of orbs?

By dust I mean: instead of spending 1 Exalted Orb to add an additional affix to a rare item, you would spend X amount of "Exalted dust," which would vary from item to item based off of things like itemlevel, base item type, and so on. Based on these characteristics, each item would have have a stat called Dust Usage, displayed on the item; regardless which type of dust you're using, one crafting attempt would use the amount displayed, and if you don't have enough dust you'd get some kind of "I don't have enough dust" voice effect from your character. Dust would normally drop in piles of multiple quantity (for example, a pile of 7 Exalted dust).

What advantages would this system have?

1. The Dust Usage stat on different items could be modified, to balance low-level crafting and high-level crafting. As many of you know, most players hoard the orbs they have instead of using them. The reason for this is simple: generally speaking, it's more effective to use a Chaos Orb rerolling a high-level item like a mid/high map or an itemlevel 78 Vaal Regalia, then it is to use that same currency on a low map or on an itemlevel 39 Grove Bow. Many players never even get to that level, and thus the best way for them to use their orbs is to trade them to other players, who trade them to other players until eventually the orbs find their way to those high-level crafters. Converting to a dust system would allow GGG to adjust the cost of low-level crafting relative to high-level crafting. If players aren't using enough Orbs on low-level items, GGG could lower their Dust Usage; if the pendulum of balance then shifts to the other side and no one crafts high-level items anymore, GGG could lower or raise Dust Usage levels again to compensate. Right now, GGG has no easy mechanisms to control the balance between low- and high-level crafting; a dust system would give them exactly such a tool.

2. Dust drop rates could be adjusted, to balance consistency against loot-finding excitement. Right now, when you find an Exalted Orb, you find, well, an entire Exalted Orb. There's no such thing as finding a fraction of one. With a dust system, that isn't the case; actually, almost any conceivable fraction of an Exalted Orb could be found. If GGG feels that players are too much at the mercy of RNG in this regard, and that instead of finding "1 Exalt" every so many hours they should find half as much twice as often, that's something they could adjust; if, on the other hand, players are so used to small piles of Exalted dust that it doesn't feel special anymore when it happens, they could make it so players find twice as much half as often. Right now, GGG has no easy mechanisms to control the balance between consistency and that "wow I'm lucky" feeling; a dust system would give them exactly such a tool.

3. Increased haggling precision. Right now, offering someone "1.5 Exalt" involves a bunch of currency conversions; with dust, it's possible to deliver 1.5 uses directly, without muddling in multiple currencies. (Of course, paying in multiple currencies would still be possible.)

What disadvantages would such a system have?

1. Since the numbers are bigger and each unit is smaller, it feels more like gold. However, as many of you know, orbs feel a lot like gold anyway; just as orbs feel like competing types of gold, dust probably would too. Still, it's possible that dust's more particulate nature could have psychological effects on the playerbase which I cannot foresee. (I guess part of the reason I made this post was to get some reactions and get some first impressions.)

2. Not all orbs convert to dust very well. Almost all currencies do; pretty much anything which is used on gear or on a map. However, Portal Scrolls and Gemcutter's Prisms don't adapt to the mechanic particularly well, so we'd need some kind of alternate solution for those functions.

3. We already have an orb system, with a "no more wipes" promise. Would we suddenly have "legacy orbs?" What kinds of effects would that have?

4. Implementation would take significant developer effort. GGG does not have unlimited time and money. Would this be worth GGG taking the time?

Thoughts?

I was skeptical at first, but I actually really like this idea. Mostly the ability to adjust crafting cost for different ilvl items so that crafting early on isn't a waste. Also being able to drop fractions of orbs more commonly seems a much better system than uncommonly finding the whole orb.

Great idea imo, but I doubt GGG would change their system so dramatically :/

This is a brilliant idea except for the issue of balancing out how much dust should be used at a certain ilvl.

For example, high tier resistances is ilvl 60
movespeed is 55
the best suffix for rings 5-7%(ias/cast speed) is level 1 or 2 !

I think that's a good idea (mostly because I'm poor and any way to make currency last longer is a good idea)

1. I like this idea, however you are asking GGG to remove something they like seeing their players do:

Huge excitement when lady luck is with you. I read Qarl or another dev saying that he was very happy about someone being excited for his easy 6L in a lost general discussion thread.
What about the excitement of finding an exalt or a mirror compared to having ex and mirror dusts ?

2. I wonder how much we can apply it to uniques ? Right now, finding a shavronne's ( or an Andvarius for a casual) = OMG, could we have unique dusts or parts ?

Okay it might not be the same, as you are talking about crafting, but don't you see a similar problem ? Uniques are either used ( much more than orbs) or SOLD out to another player..
What if we had unique dusts/parts/[insert appropriate word]s that would allow us to choose the unique we are aiming for and create it. Hmm..hmm

"

Nephalim wrote:

This is a brilliant idea except for the issue of balancing out how much dust should be used at a certain ilvl.

For example, high tier resistances is ilvl 60
movespeed is 55
the best suffix for rings 5-7%(ias/cast speed) is level 1 or 2 !

Ideally, this would be done by trial and error while testing such a system. The point isn't "I'm Scrotie so I know how to balance everything instantly," because I don't. The point is that this would give GGG the tools to balance it.

"

Inexium wrote:

1. I like this idea, however you are asking GGG to remove something they like seeing their players do:

Huge excitement when lady luck is with you. I read Qarl or another dev saying that he was very happy about someone being excited for his easy 6L in a lost general discussion thread.
What about the excitement of finding an exalt or a mirror compared to having ex and mirror dusts ?

That's why I used very precise language in the OP. ;) I actually agree with the devs to a certain extent: if you find a little bit of something too often, it becomes too ordinary and thus not exciting; if you find something less often in big amounts, it's a real thrill if/when you actually do! Once again, I don't know exactly where the right balance is on this issue, but this isn't about trying to make everything super-boring, zero-RNG; this is about giving GGG tools to balance the good side of RNG (excitement) vs the bad side (inconsistency).

I think it's too complicated and Poe is already complicated enough.
Now that i think about it Poe needs an in-game tutorial for beginners more than anything.
I watched a video the other day with some new people that did not know that with alt you can view the items on the ground. They had to hover with the mouse to read what items each rare monster droped.

I wrote something similar elsewhere in the thread where scrotie first mentioned the dust idea, and am too lazy to write it up again, or add anything, but it's a similar alternative to the dust idea. Second and third bullet point being the relevant part. 6th also being the alternative system for how GCP's wouldn't scale as dust.

"

Wooser69 wrote:

Well in a perfect world~

-Itemlevel brackets would disallow for a number of sockets and links below a threshold while the % chances of getting more than 4 links or sockets to chance for 6S/6L are scaled to stay the same as they are now.

-Using alchs on items below ilevel 60 would give you back a scaled number of alchemy shards, depending on itemlevel brackets. They'd just appear in your inventory like a vendor trade.

-Using chaos/regal/divines/exalts on items below ilevel 60 would give newly introduced shards of those orbs only available through these means, also scaled to ilevel brackets.

-Chromatics would consume quality to improve chances of off-colours.

-A new chromatic orb added that allows you to set the colours you need by temporarily turning all sockets white and making the item unuseable, then being able to lock the colours to the gems you then equip inside by using the orb on it again, also granting shards based on ilevel brackets and removing any magical/rare/unique qualities (or links, still fitting to minimums on ilevel brackets. can't decide on this one) of the item in the process.

-Prisms would scale to improve by an added 1% of quality per 5% of quality the gem does not have, also scaling this effect down by 1% of quality gained per every 5 levels the gem has.


ilevel brackets being 10, 20, etc up to 60, base number of shards granted from using an orb on a <30 ilevel item being 80% of its original worth, granting 20% less shards of orbs used per 10 ilevels above 20. ex: alch on ilevel 1-29 gives 16 shards back, ilevel 30 gives 12 shards, 40=8, 50=4, 60=0.

ilevel 20 items would no longer spawn/roll with less than 2 sockets, ilevel 30 with no less than 1 link, ilevel 40 3 sockets, ilevel 50 2 links, ilevel 60 no less than 4 sockets. Again, chances of spawning or rolling above 4 links or 4 sockets scaled to be the same as they are now. For reference on how maximums, but not minimums, are already ilevel based.

For reference, prism scaling:

Spoiler

level 1 gem, 0 quality, 5%, 1 prism
level 1 gem, 5% quality, 9%, 2 prisms
level 1 gem, 9% quality, 12%, 3 prisms
level 1 gem, 12% quality, 15%, 4 prisms
level 1 gem, 15% quality, 17%, 5 prisms
level 1 gem, 17% quality, 19%, 6 prisms
level 1 gem, 19% quality, 20%, 7 prisms for max quality
level 5 gem, 0% quality, 4%, 1 prism
level 5 gem, 4% quality, 7%, 2 prisms
level 5 gem, 7% quality, 9%, 3 prisms
level 5 gem, 11% quality, 12%, 4 prisms, 12 for max quality
level 10 gem, 0% quality, 3%, 1 prism
level 10 gem, 3% quality, 6%, 2 prisms
level 10 gem, 6% quality, 8%, 3 prisms
level 10 gem, 10% quality, 11%, 4 prisms, 13 for max quality
level 15 gem, 0% quality, 2%, 1 prism
level 15 gem, 2% quality, 4%, 2 prisms
level 15 gem, 4% quality, 6%, 3 prisms
level 15 gem, 6% quality, 7%, 4 prisms, 17 for max quality
level 20 gem, 0% quality, 1%, 20 prisms for max quality, vendor recipe eligible

...but the world isn't perfect, so whatever.

I think it'd probably lead to the least amount amount needing to be changed around, meaning less effort and new things for people to get used to, while still keeping the current 'weight' of orbs.
And I think to new players, using an orb on a thing and getting back change is gonna seem more enjoyable than 'grinding' for dust, even if the end result is the same. Plus I'm warey of getting piles of shards as drops - with a 10 year lifespan will we ever go "please add auto pickup of shards" or "why can't we just have gold like any other game?".

Either implementation would be great for the game though. It'd do a huge amount to improve on crafting, hoarding, the games economy and the gap between playing solo and playing trade chat.

A lot of people will still hold onto exalted dust, because trading it for end-game items will still be more efficient than using it for crafting. The dust numbers will just help mislead people into thinking otherwise.

I also think it adds unnecessary complexity, lower-tier orbs already serve this purpose.

Scrotie : You are asking for a self-craft league, let the others craft for you!

PoE is not, now, self-found and self-craft because it's online i guess..

Edit : Now i understand why a few people keep asking for a self found league ( we are doing a similar thing : asking for a self craft one when you can just let the other craft for you, interesting anyway )