Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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Zeshin wrote:

... I am just not sure instanced loot is the way to go.

We're not talking here about completely changing the ffa to instanced loot.
We're talking about the option of choosing between ffa and instanced loot. Those "hardcore" players will party-play in ffa style and all those other players (probably the majority) will party-play-instanced. Or vice-versa.
A extremely simple and not critical-game-changing task to do so everybody can be happy.
Easy.

I understand that the desired outcome is to have options, they are a good thing. I guess the current spot that I am getting hung up on is why instanced loot in the first place. Especially since the model is 10(total) pieces of loot drop total from mob x so each memeber of a 3 person team gets 3.3333 pieces of loot. Just seems to me that from a loot perspective it would be a horribly inefficient way to play, and that could be my issue right there and its not about efficiency. Which brings me to my question of why instanced loot and not some other form of loot rules as options. So if it all really just boils down to for or against options and not for instanced loot or against instanced loot I would have to side with the for options(as long as said options DO NOT in anyway shape or form increase the amount of loot gained), because it wouldn't really affect me either way since the groups I would play with would still run FFA.

Edit: The use of Instanced Loot may be the reason for such heated debates, I know that when I hear Instanced Loot my mind pops to my first example. Of course I could be completely wrong and people just don't want to allow options(shrug).

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Zeshin wrote:

... why instanced loot in the first place.

That's easy, because no game should make its players nervous, frustrated, stressed etc because of ninja looting. People play games for fun and relaxation not the contrary.
Also no game should offer the opportunity or promote loot stealing, ninja-ing or whatever you want to call it.
It's enough player competition in PvP, cutthroat, races, events etc but competing/ninjaing/stealing over loot in party-play it's just plain stupid.
There are also plenty another smaller technicalities in favor for this system but the above is the most important thing in my opinion and far outweights all the small disadvantages that this sytem has.

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Zeshin wrote:

I understand that the desired outcome is to have options, they are a good thing. I guess the current spot that I am getting hung up on is why instanced loot in the first place. Especially since the model is 10(total) pieces of loot drop total from mob x so each memeber of a 3 person team gets 3.3333 pieces of loot. Just seems to me that from a loot perspective it would be a horribly inefficient way to play, and that could be my issue right there and its not about efficiency. Which brings me to my question of why instanced loot and not some other form of loot rules as options. So if it all really just boils down to for or against options and not for instanced loot or against instanced loot I would have to side with the for options(as long as said options DO NOT in anyway shape or form increase the amount of loot gained), because it wouldn't really affect me either way since the groups I would play with would still run FFA.

Edit: The use of Instanced Loot may be the reason for such heated debates, I know that when I hear Instanced Loot my mind pops to my first example. Of course I could be completely wrong and people just don't want to allow options(shrug).

Most of us when we say "instanced" we really mean any system that allows us the ability to get to our share of loot without having to stop killing creatures to go grab it before the other players do. I would be mostly happy if there was ANY other option that eliminated the loot competition. I wouldn't mind instanced but it doesn't have to be that. For example they could simply give the option to increase the timers.

And when most of us talk about instanced we're talking about a system which significantly reduces the loot you get by joining a public group, all for the misleading, completely false illusion of fairness (instanced loot is less fair than FFA loot).

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anubite wrote:

And when most of us talk about instanced we're talking about a system which significantly reduces the loot you get by joining a public group, all for the misleading, completely false illusion of fairness (instanced loot is less fair than FFA loot).

Please explain what you mean by fair because a lot of us are wanting looting options because we find it MORE fair. Each player gets an equal share without being required to compete for it. Increasing the length of the timers would not reduce the loot.

There is no false illusion, we all know what we would be getting in an instanced system. I don't know why you think you have some kind of deep insider information that the rest of us don't have.

sounds like communism to me lol

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anubite wrote:

instanced loot is less fair than FFA loot.

No, it's not.

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Chrono89 wrote:

sounds like communism to me lol

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CanHasPants wrote:

EDIT:
Also, if you really think about it.. Instanced loot is like Capitalism; you work for what you earn, and you are rewarded according to the risks you take. FFA loot is like Communism; you benefit from the labor of others, and risks are not rewarded. Please tell me, FFAer, why do you hate God so much?

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Sickness wrote:

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anubite wrote:

instanced loot is less fair than FFA loot.

No, it's not.

Yes, yes it is.

Tell me, how do I get loot you leave behind? You have to tell me you're leaving behind loot on the ground right? Because I never see it.

Do you honestly expect some random pug player to inform you when something drops he doesn't want? With the sheer amount of shit that drops in this game? Do you expect your friend to even do this? Every ten seconds to describe what dropped that he isn't identifying or picking up?

Instanced loot causes you to get less loot.
Instanced loot arbitrarily assigns loot.
Thus, you /unfairly/ get less loot. And it's unfair because it's practically random. It's unfair because that guy isn't using the loot that you potentially want. He didn't want that unique - to him it's garbage. Never tells you about it. Same goes with a tri color linked. You just lost a chromatic. Same goes with a rare with unusual stats on it - he doesn't need it, do you think he'll stop every 10 seconds to tell you he doesn't need X, Y and Z that just dropped?

It's far, far less fair than FFA loot. It just gives the illusion of fairness, because you NEVER see anything that drops for him.

edit: Oh god, you're bringing Communism vs Capitalism into this? What a joke. Please, take your childish simplifications of economic systems out of here. It's making you look completely uneducated and foolish. That isn't how communism or capitalism works at all.