Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

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Chris wrote:

It's important to us that Path of Exile has a cut-throat feel where players are not only competing against monsters, but also their fellow players.

That's why

Ok, if we all accept GGG's vision of the game then surely if any players who party decide their own loot rules or if someone kicks a ninja from a pub, they are in some way jading the way the game is meant to be played? Are those people 'playing the game wrong' in GGG's eyes?

I'm all for artistic vision but I feel GGG are trying to push a square peg in a round hole when in comes to their vision of looting. They can call it "an exciting adrenaline rush" or "a competative cut-throat feel" but the reality of the matter is different for a significant proportion of their playerbase. For all those people the vision has failed & rather than be exciting it is a frustration as they are not necessarily socially cut-throat people & just like to play arpg video games. Believe it or not there are people out there that don't want to be forced to essentially act like an asshole in game & be at odds with all other players. Some folks just want to kill monsters & loot to pop out, they don't want this game to be some kind of social experiment where they have to weed out the dicks and make their own rules or be cut-throat about every piece of loot as GGG intended.

Damn you Slayer for dragging me back into this black hole.

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lethal_papercut wrote:

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SL4Y3R wrote:

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Chris wrote:

It's important to us that Path of Exile has a cut-throat feel where players are not only competing against monsters, but also their fellow players.

That's why

Ok, if we all accept GGG's vision of the game then surely if any players who party decide their own loot rules or if someone kicks a ninja from a pub, they are in some way jading the way the game is meant to be played? Are those people 'playing the game wrong' in GGG's eyes?

I'm all for artistic vision but I feel GGG are trying to push a square peg in a round hole when in comes to their vision of looting. They can call it "an exciting adrenaline rush" or "a competative cut-throat feel" but the reality of the matter is different for a significant proportion of their playerbase. For all those people the vision has failed & rather than be exciting it is a frustration as they are not necessarily socially cut-throat people & just like to play arpg video games. Believe it or not there are people out there that don't want to be forced to essentially act like an asshole in game & be at odds with all other players. Some folks just want to kill monsters & loot to pop out, they don't want this game to be some kind of social experiment where they have to weed out the dicks and make their own rules or be cut-throat about every piece of loot as GGG intended.

Damn you Slayer for dragging me back into this black hole.

Sorry lethal :P

And I get that people just want to kill shit and lootz to spew from their dead bodies. I do.

But at the same time, to ask a dev to change something this critical, just seems wrong to me. Even if it is, "just an option" it still changes the ENTIRE game.

Yes, some people are dicks. Some are assholes. Put 2 and 2 together and you get 1 fucked individual.

Jokes aside, asking for even an option is pretty serious business. As this affects everything. I still hate timers, but I understand why they're there. I know many of the instanced loot players dont like me saying, "Well just play with friends, people who play with similiar playstyles, etc" But, if there was an option in game, this is the EXACT same thing. Literally, the EXACT same. So not wanting to play with friends or have to group up with others like you, and than wanting an option, where the end result is the same, seems odd.

Again, I understand some people just want what is "theirs" or w/e, and to not have to focus on loot while playing.

For me, that's part of the fun.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

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Chris wrote:

It's important to us that Path of Exile has a cut-throat feel where players are not only competing against monsters, but also their fellow players.

That's why

Repeating the same tired, invalid rant over and over. Good for you.

I guess I'll do the same, the devs have already bent, players are competing less against each other now. Who's to say that they won't bend further?

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SL4Y3R wrote:

... to ask a dev to change something this critical ... Even if it is, "just an option" it still changes the ENTIRE game.

This is not "critical" and also doesn't "change the entire game" as you said.
The economy will be the same, it's still the same amount of loot etc on the contrary people will start playing and cooperating in party instead of ninja looting.
If you make such BIG statements like "critical request" and "changing the entire game" please back them up with some arguments instead of showing them like big house of cards.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

But at the same time, to ask a dev to change something this critical, just seems wrong to me. Even if it is, "just an option" it still changes the ENTIRE game.

Jokes aside, asking for even an option is pretty serious business. As this affects everything. I still hate timers, but I understand why they're there.

No, it doesn't change the ENTIRE game at all.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

I know many of the instanced loot players dont like me saying, "Well just play with friends, people who play with similiar playstyles, etc" But, if there was an option in game, this is the EXACT same thing. Literally, the EXACT same. So not wanting to play with friends or have to group up with others like you, and than wanting an option, where the end result is the same, seems odd.

What?? It's not the same thing at all. What makes you even say that?

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SL4Y3R wrote:

Again, I understand some people just want what is "theirs" or w/e, and to not have to focus on loot while playing.

For me, that's part of the fun.

Yeah, that's why we are asking for option.

I am slightly confused with the whole instanced loot not affecting play stance. Because to me it only makes sense that if loot is instanced(even if its just an option) there would be more loot. Example group goes and kills boss each member would get the same amount of loot as what would have dropped normally. So lets say normally 10 items would have dropped in FFA mode(or our current timer FFAish mode). Now lets say your in a 3 man group each person gets 10 drops so that's 30 pieces of loot total(30 chances for it roll a unique, currency, blah blah blah). That is a greatly increased influx of potential Uniques, Currency, and the blah blah blah. This would make everything more common, which does affect play.

Now for the sake of argument that Instanced Loot doesn't give everyone the same amount of loot that would have dropped, but instead took the 10 divided it among the members. So the 10 items means a in a 3 man group each member would get 3.333 blah blah blah pieces of loot. How would this promote grouping when it would be clearly more efficient to just solo for loot even if you only got 4-6 pieces of loot from the same boss solo.

All is can see from it is either it makes every mob a loot pinata for everyone and rare items are not really all that rare anymore, or it makes it even less worth while to group(unless of course your only doing it for exp in which case loot rules don't even matter). So if someone could clarify things for me(preferably in a non-dickish way) that would be much appreciated. Also I am not saying FFA or death...just really don't like instanced loot. If you are how ever arguing for something like round robin loot options that can be toggled on or off in agreement in a group then cool as long as FFA is still there(although if your group can reach an agreement on which loot toggle to use do you really need the toggle?).

I remember how it was with Diablo 2 a decade plus ago.

There were people I teamed with regularly but on occasion one would have to
go 'pug' when trusted folk were not online to team with.

I remember how often one would run across people who THRIVE on fucking other people over
when it came to snagging loot on boss kills. That was the game for them. The thrill of fucking
another person over. Some were expert at trying to get another player killed just in time
to do the final fuck over.

They thrive on it. That is the game for them.

I guess the attitude of the GG core devs is to cater to those that enjoy making others feel
fucked over. That is the thrill they remember enjoying I suppose.

Me, I never in any realm of my life get a thrill out of fucking others over.

If it was I that could decide. I would solve this issue with a /players command.

The boosting issue is simply a response to Grinding Gears attitude to how the loot is handled
and the 'thrill' of fisting another first to get the 'fat lewtz'.

Fuck that.

As you can guess I droll along solo mostly.
Not seen a reason to party anyway (except for loot) as once past normal the game actually becomes easier.
Least for my witch.

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Zeshin wrote:

I am slightly confused with the whole instanced loot not affecting play stance. Because to me it only makes sense that if loot is instanced(even if its just an option) there would be more loot.

This is incorrect. The amount of loot that a killed mob generates is based upon the number of players in the instance. Not one single piece more or less is dropped if instanced or FFA. Instanced simply assigns a share of the total to each member. The total is no greater. At all.


One very looming fact about the current loot system is that a significant number of people will simply not group at all without an instanced option. Grouping in games is what forms bonds between players, making those players more dedicated to the game. All the pro-FFA arguments I've seen completely ignore this problem, or shrug it off with an "Oh well." I think doing so is short-sighted and dismissive.

First part is correct. Second part not so much

You know very well that I've said to play with each other. Just group up together.

Okay so the purposed idea is closer to my second example, I should have stated the two trains of thought at the beginning. As for the whole forming bonds with others, I have done so in games with and without FFA. For me they have always been more fun and stronger bonds in FFA games, being able to agree on the rules for the group and trust the others in your group to not go ninja mode was always more rewarding than having the rules always looming over head IMO. I completely understand both sides of the argument, I am just not sure instanced loot is the way to go.