[2.0] Damage comparison : Lioneye's Glare vs two Harbingers (a decent and a good one)

Here's a little topic to show that Lioneye's glare is still a very valid choice in the current all crit meta. It may help people who wish to play a physical crit archer but don't have the funds to get a decent harbinger, since LG is a very cheap bow.

Three bows were used for the test:

A very well rolled 354 pdps harbinger:

A random craft 298 pdps harbinger:

An almost perfectly rolled 359 pdps Lioneye's Glare (a lucky drop, and I don't have a lower one :s):


Rest of gear used for the test



So less crit multi than in my original test for 1.3. I wanted to have something more realistic with today gear standards. I still have perfect legacy crit multi on my amulet but on the other hand I use neither Maligaro's Virtuosity nor Rat's Nest, so that even out.


2.0 passive skill tree.

I used Puncture for single target, on 4L:


And I used three different AOEs:





For buffs, I used Hatred 20, Herald of Ash 20/20 and Ice Golem 18.
Also note that I have a rather high accuracy at 3.1k. People genraly have around 2k, which will reduce the difference between LG and harbingers further.

Dps screenshots were taken under two configurations:

With no charges

354 pdps Harbinger

Puncture


Split Arrow


Tornado Shot


Lightning Arrow


298 pdps Harbinger

Puncture


Split Arrow


Tornado Shot


Lightning Arrow


359 pdps Lioneye's Glare

Puncture


Split Arrow


Tornado Shot


Lightning Arrow



With 6 frenzy charges and 4 power charges

354 pdps Harbinger

Puncture


Split Arrow


Tornado Shot


Lightning Arrow


298 pdps Harbinger

Puncture


Split Arrow


Tornado Shot


Lightning Arrow


359 pdps Lioneye's Glare

Puncture


Split Arrow


Tornado Shot


Lightning Arrow





Conclusion
In PoE 2.0, a very well rolled Lioneye's Glare still compare evenly to a 280-290 pdps harbinger with 8.5 crit chance. It is still a very good choice to build a physical crit bow build, especially in short league, and it's much cheaper than harbinger that give equivalent damage.


1.3 version

A very well rolled 354 pdps harbinger:


A random craft 298 pdps harbinger:


An almost perfectly rolled 359 pdps Lioneye's Glare (a lucky drop, and I don't have a lower one :s):


I used Puncture for single target, on 4L:


And Tornado Shot and Split Arrow for AOE:




The test was done under two aura setups:

Hatred/HoA/Ele prolif setup

This setup favors the Harbingers since they hit harder than LG.


Damage in hideout

354 pdps Harbinger

Puncture

Tornado Shot

Split Arrow


297 pdps Harbinger

Puncture

Tornado Shot

Split Arrow


359 pdps Lioneye's Glare

Puncture

Tornado Shot

Split Arrow




Damage with 4 power charges

354 pdps Harbinger

Puncture

Tornado Shot

Split Arrow


297 pdps Harbinger

Puncture

Tornado Shot

Split Arrow


359 pdps Lioneye's Glare

Puncture

Tornado Shot

Split Arrow





Hatred/HoA/HoI setup

This setup is better for LG because it's a very fast bow with less peak damage than the Harbingers.


Damage in hideout

354 pdps Harbinger

Puncture

Tornado Shot

Split Arrow


297 pdps Harbinger

Puncture

Tornado Shot

Split Arrow


359 pdps Lioneye's Glare

Puncture

Tornado Shot

Split Arrow




Damage with 4 power charges

354 pdps Harbinger

Puncture

Tornado Shot

Split Arrow


297 pdps Harbinger

Puncture

Tornado Shot

Split Arrow


359 pdps Lioneye's Glare

Puncture

Tornado Shot

Split Arrow





Conclusion
A very well rolled Lioneye's Glare compares evenly to a 280-290 pdps harbinger with 8.5 crit chance. According to poe.trade, such a harbinger bow currently costs 6 exalted at least in standard, whereas the Lioneye's Glare can be found under 20 chaos.
Decimation bows in this range of damage also cost more, with a 4 exalted entry price.

edit:
It's in fact more efficient to use PPAD instead of Faster Attack on LG. This will make mana usage more manageable and will also increase dps. Here's the updated damage with this support, for LG only:

Hatred/HoA/Ele prolif setup

Split Arrow

Split Arrow with 4 power charges

Tornado Shot

Tornado Shot with 4 power charges



Hatred/HoA/HoI setup

Split Arrow

Split Arrow with 4 power charges

Tornado Shot

Tornado Shot with 4 power charges



edit 2:
Tree and full gear used to do this test, because I was asked for them.

Spoiler

tree at lvl 92

Bandits: Oak, Oak, Alira (skill point is valid too. I took Alira because I hope I'll have a 6L eventually and then use pcoc)



I would do sensibly more tooltip dps if I used Burning arrow on chest (ppad, fa, wed, afd) in AOE on bow:
Burning arrow, faster attack, afd, wed, ppad: 75k dps with Hatred and HoA
TS, GMP, faster attack, afd, phys to lightning: 21k dps with Hatred and HoA.

But then ele reflect may become dangerous, so I'm currently sticking to the setup linked in the gear.

Ranger builds list: /917964
When two witches watch two watches, which witch watches which watch?
If the witches watching watches watch the same watch while you watch which witch watches which watch, they switch watches; then, the watch switching witches watch which watch you watch.
Watching witches watch watches is not for the faint of heart...
Last edited by Panini_aux_olives on Oct 20, 2015, 2:15:05 PM
very cool comparison thank you for the effort and information. should be very helpful for people to know that lioneyes is a great entry into a good ranger bow build while still saving/crafting that harbinger for their final weapon (if it suits their build).

would also just like to point out that lioneyes is much faster attack speed so that will affect mana consumption. something to keep in mind when wanting to get the full DPS out of LG
Ideally, I should have tested with Physical Projectile Attack Damage (PPAD in short) instead of Faster Attack, but I have only one PPAD 20/20 and I was too lazy to switch my gem from one setup to another and redo all screenshots (especially with the charges up).
With PPAD, LG is at 3 att/s, which is very manageable (it's my regular attack speed on my harbinger and I have no mana issue). And it does more damage than with faster attack.

edit: I've edited the first post with damage figures with PPAD instead of faster attack, for LG only.
Ranger builds list: /917964
When two witches watch two watches, which witch watches which watch?
If the witches watching watches watch the same watch while you watch which witch watches which watch, they switch watches; then, the watch switching witches watch which watch you watch.
Watching witches watch watches is not for the faint of heart...
Last edited by Panini_aux_olives on Jan 18, 2015, 1:45:38 PM
Glare is great, but hitting a reflect pack with it is EXTREMELY dangerous, especially for evasion/acro builds.

Normally the reflect damage is mitigated a lot by acrobatics+dodge. Even then, you can hurt yourself bad hitting a reflect pack.

With Lioneye's you can quite easily one shot yourself with tornado shot to a phys reflect pack.
"
kuromahou wrote:
Glare is great, but hitting a reflect pack with it is EXTREMELY dangerous, especially for evasion/acro builds.

Normally the reflect damage is mitigated a lot by acrobatics+dodge. Even then, you can hurt yourself bad hitting a reflect pack.

With Lioneye's you can quite easily one shot yourself with tornado shot to a phys reflect pack.


this is why any lioneye's physical build should have a 4L of something like ice shot, phys to lightning, etc in order to convert all damage to elemental so physical reflect is a non issue.
Here is a test with LG on a physical reflect map:

http://youtu.be/j8K3lhzxRrw

And with LgoH instead of WED. I eventually died to corrupted blood which I didn't see while killing an ele reflect mob (so it's dual reflect with uncapped res because of ele weakness)

http://youtu.be/9qLC-gFRU0M

It should be safer with gear and tree properly tailored for LG. Also I properly cast enduring cry repeatedly for the rest of the map and it was much safer as I had a 2-3s immortal call.
Ranger builds list: /917964
When two witches watch two watches, which witch watches which watch?
If the witches watching watches watch the same watch while you watch which witch watches which watch, they switch watches; then, the watch switching witches watch which watch you watch.
Watching witches watch watches is not for the faint of heart...
Last edited by Panini_aux_olives on Jan 19, 2015, 6:40:42 AM
You forgot something:
10k with 90% accuracy is 9k effective
10k with Lioneye is 10k effective (beware of reflect)

So Lioneye dps is even better compared to harbingers. To top your top rolled one you really need a glorius Harbringer or tons of crit multiplier gear.
I didn't mention that but yes, I have a lot of accuracy. The random archer is more in the 1800-2000 range.

You're wrong however on your numbers, accuracy is factored in tooltip dps.
Ranger builds list: /917964
When two witches watch two watches, which witch watches which watch?
If the witches watching watches watch the same watch while you watch which witch watches which watch, they switch watches; then, the watch switching witches watch which watch you watch.
Watching witches watch watches is not for the faint of heart...
Very good comparison overall, thanks for your efforts.

However, are you counting that the critical chance is quite higger in Harbingers than in Lioneyes?
HC SSF Harbinguer : Templar Inquisitor, LVL 94 (RIP).
STANDARD : Templar Inquisitor, LVL 97 (ALL CONTENT DONE)
"
lourun_coria wrote:
Very good comparison overall, thanks for your efforts.

However, are you counting that the critical chance is quite higger in Harbingers than in Lioneyes?
It doesn't matter, it's also factored in tooltip dps. You trade crit for faster attacks and higher chance to hit. In fact LG is more or less equivalent to a 7% crit bow with 85% chance to hit.

Build around LG with PPAD instead of faster attack to save on mana and you will be doing great, for a fraction of the cost of an equivalent crit bow, dps wise.
Ranger builds list: /917964
When two witches watch two watches, which witch watches which watch?
If the witches watching watches watch the same watch while you watch which witch watches which watch, they switch watches; then, the watch switching witches watch which watch you watch.
Watching witches watch watches is not for the faint of heart...

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